U-Joint Terminology
 

Surely, someone in this diverse crowd of automotive know-it-alls must understand the 'ins and outs' of the U-Joint world...1310 Series, 1350 Series, Spicer.....and on and on. Well, that stuff is all 'Greek' to me. With my shortcomings understood, is there anyone that can technically and definitively describe the U-joint combination in the picture? I NEED "sure stuff"....NO guesses! What you see facing you is a 6-spline that accepts the front of an old Ford ('28-'48) drive shaft. The FRONT half of the joint in this picture is fitted to a 27-spline Chevy output shaft. MORE SPECIFICALLY, I would be interested in a complete U-Joint comprising the aforementioned 6-spline Ford rear half, with the forward facing half to fit a 23-spline '82-'86 Jeep CJ 4X4 output shaft. The second picture shows the detail of the 23-spline required for the Jeep shaft. As can be seen, this joint needs to be rather compact so as to fit inside a Ford torque tube bell/clamshell enclosure. Many thanks, guys! DD


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lb1g4GkktM...1600/mount.jpg


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...0&d=1592375337






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Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

I don't know the answer, but if you look on the strange engineering website they have a pile of that sort of stuff there.
Lawrie

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

Thanks a bunch, Lawrie. DD

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

The 1350 is the designator of the size of the u-joint.
Then you need a transmission joke to fit the gearbox....they are usually refered to as slip jokes when they can move freely on the shaft.
You either have to buy 3 pieces and assemble or make a custom order for it...not going to find an off the shelf piece like that.
The rearpiece looks like a driveshaft yoke in shape( the ones you weld to a driveshaft tube)...and then machine the splines into it.

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

The only thing that concerns me with that setup as pictured is that there is no leeway to compensate for any misalignment. The Ford UJs have bushes and are able to slide from side to side. This stops any binding from ant misalignment in the spherical parts and clamshell.
If you think of a normal rwd driveshaft, it hangs in mid air, supported solely by the UJs.
It's just a thought that was running through my mind that I wanted to share.

Re the UJ specs, this site lists out the specs including the conversion joints that have one size on one side and another size on the other side.

http://www.driveshaftspecialist.com/...D%20Guide.html

Mart.

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

Problem here is that the opendriveshaft slipyoke has to be bolted firm to the gearbox with a distance so center of u-joint and pivot point of closed driveshaft is same.
So right there is a custom machined part.
And the 6-spline part is probably a custom order to if not by chance used in some PTO shaft for tractor/industrial where 6-Spline is common.

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

This may be a good question for the Hamb.

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

That's way TOO easy! Don't ever forget.....there's lots of 'smarts' danglin' amongst us hairlips over here. DD

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

I'm sure that as you have gone to all the trouble of making up that neat conversion you will know that the centre of the pivot point on the U/J needs to be in exactly the same plane as the pivot point of the U/J bell.
I haven't found a way to measure the centre or pivot point on the bell , but it IS important,
I had Kpars 33 in my shop last year to get rid of a pesky vibration and it turned out that these two were no right, caused by a U/J that had the end that goes up against the trans rear bearing machined and these two pivot dimensions were not the same.
Lawrie

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

Lawrie.....I've thought about your point many times, and I agree with what you say. And like you, I also had not figured a way to compute the bell's pivot point, until now. So, let's see if YOU agree.


I think that you can agree that what we are really looking for is the ability to match ANY U-Joint's pivot plane (fore and aft) with the torque tube bell's pivot center. I believe that it would be reasonable to assume that Ford correctly computed the T-Tube bell's pivot location....only because that functional aspect on these cars has worked so well for near a century now. So, what we're really left with is the question of ascertaining where the U-Joint's pivot plane is located (fore & aft)....with regard to SOME fixed point related to the T-Tube bell.


Here's what I've come-up with. Looking at this drawing from Mac VanPelt that I'm sure you've seen a dozen times before, I pretty much see the U-Joint pivot plane precisely in line with the REAR face of the large, U-Joint retention washer. With that line being established, one SHOULD merely be able to measure the distance from the rear face of that washer (using STOCK U-Joint and washer), to the rear face of the bearing retainer. That dimension (fore & aft) would need to be maintained for confirming a center line with any future U-Joint replacement. What do ya think? DD


http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...o39cutaway.jpg

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

If the bell joint at the front of the torque tube was a COMPLETE hemisphere, then yes, the pivot plane would be at the face of the bearing retainer. But, the center of the radius is a bit further back than that face.

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

I'm sure Ford would have centered the hemispherical center on the center of the UJ.

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

The tube to cap connection is approximately a half of a sphere or there abouts. The centerline of the driven knuckle would have to mate with the front tip of the plane of rotation of the torque tube sphere or the hinge line of the tubes movement to keep the drive shaft centered with the tube. To find that hinge line is going to depend on the tube and cap. Since the cap attaches to a flange then that is your given place to measure from. The centerline of whatever U-joint front knuckle and rear knuckle will have to work with that cap.

The Ford parts being bushing type U-joints, makes for a smaller diameter in the overall bearing size for the U-joint cross and knuckles. Most needle bearing types have to be larger in diameter just to make the bearings fit and work. A larger diameter bearing will require that the U-joint be farther forward in the flange to get the centerline in the same place as it would be for the Ford parts plus the size of the front and rear knuckles will be larger in diameter. The cross will have to be small enough to fit as well.

I don't know what the sizing is on U-joints now days with metrics factoring in where the old inch measurements used to be. The fact that both are available could be helpful though since it gives more choices to find the fit that will work. The joint will have to be compact to fit in the confines of the original type flange and cap. If it's been done successfully then at least a person can measure what it there and match it up.

This is a good link:
https://www.neapcocomponents.com/ima...gs/9901018.pdf

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

I wouldn´t bet money on that it´s perfectly centered from start since the reason it has bushing instead of needles is that angle is basicly at zero...and then the issue is less of a problem then at an angle.
So better verify it...

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

Pete....I believe if you'll carefully re-read what I said, I only mentioned the rear face of the bearing retainer as a measuring REFERENCE point, to locate what I BELIEVED to be the actual pivot location being in line with the rear face of that big U-Joint retention washer. With the torque tube all bolted-up, you obviously cannot see that washer, and need to have a measuring reference to visualize that pivot point on the clamshell/torque tube bell. DD

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

This Model A cross section shows the spherical arrangement all centered on the cross shaft of the UJ

https://www.oneillvintageford.co.uk/...x-3speed-l.png

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1592506904

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

Coopman, its easy to get the u/j centre,I sat the U/J trans end down on a flat surface, then measured down from the top of the U/J cross bearing or the actual shaft, down to the flat surface, deduct half the bearing or shaft diameter and you have it, I have this and other dimensions written down in my notes,ALSO important is the dimension from the face that the bell bolts to on the rear trans mounting to the rear of the trans casing ,including the gaskets.all this affects the centre line dimension.
Mart, it must be on the same plane other wise when the t/tube moves through its arc the dimension will change,
I don't know how to measure it though.
so I stick to using NOS parts.
Lawrie

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

Knowing the measurement from the cap flange to the center of the U-joint cross & bearing is the key to any modification such as the T5 conversion. No mater where your cap flange ends up, the center of that cross will have to be the same distance from it to use the old Ford torque tube set up.

I commend all the work that has been done to make the T5 into a torque tube drive since it was a lot of work and careful planning. A lot of folks just find a way to replace the torque tube with an open drive to make it more simple but is sure doesn't look the same. Torque arms also require a lot of planning and work if a person wants to keep the buggy style rear spring set up and have it work the way it was originally intended.

Re: U-Joint Terminology
 

Just a thought...do you have enough angle on the u-joint now ?
Reason ford used bushings was cause they didn´t have it originally.
If you don´t have enough angle so the needles rotates over a turn you get issues.