Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

On the Frankenwagon the interior is out and I want to install the correct upper washers and flanged insulating rubbers. All bolts, nuts, pads and mounts to frame are visible save for the front of the kick up area on the frame. ( I see no shims.) Apparently the L and R MOUNT nut?, rivet nut? is inside the upper frame. The bolt head and washer is visible.
Has any one removed one of these body to frame bolt? I'm concerned that if, if the nut is not secure I won't be able to TQ the spec. for its inside the frame. Was yours in good condition?
Should I forgo installing the correct washer and insulating rubber washer?

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

K always likes photos, a view from the sliding glass 1/4 window looking at the L bolt from floor pan. Directly under body is a pad then frame. Don't know if I should leave it alone or go for the upper washer and insulating rubber washer. Same set up on R side of vehicle, only bolts that I don't have access to the nuts.

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

HEY J!


:confused:

... anyways ...

J, where you are going was usually reserved for the BODY SHOP in that period, so service info was limited. Also, all of the hardware listing/descriptions has been deleted from the FINAL ISSUE 49/59 MPC. Some 57/58 is still listed.

You absolutely need a 56 FORD BODY ASSEMBLY MANUAL to help you where you want to go. They are available reprint.

I do not have a 56 SHOP MANUAL but I do have a 55. It shows just enough info for the SERVICE DEPT to service the body, usually warranty claims.

All of the engineering illustrations should be in the BODY MANUAL along with repair procedures. Now the 55 I have shows the torquing pattern and torque values for the actual body mounts. It also details how to shim and draw the body down to allow proper door alignment, etc.

If I had an original period MPC, it would have all of the body mount hardware listed along with illustrations. Possibly if we had the PN's, we could find NOS or aftermarket.

Does this help?

EDIT-

Shown below is a kit for a 57/58. There has to be kits for yours.

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

JWA, I answered your private message regarding this. Additionally, I wanted to mention that I had also temporarily removed the two studs on each side for the cowl mount for two reasons; I wanted to install new studs and because I wanted to sit the body on the frame prior to installing the studs so that there would be no possibility of scratching the paint off the bottoms of the cowl support. However, if your cowl studs are in, you have an advantage of using them as a guide for the body-on-frame position at the front at least.

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

On most of the '55 and 56 cars and wagons I have seen; the only two mounting holes that had factory installed shims were the two that have the nuts inserted into the top of the frame where the frame kicks upward for the rear axle housing. There may need to be more than one shim per mounting bolt. Use shims as needed to keep from crushing or warping the floorpanel.

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

KULTULZ and Daves55Sedan: the body has been off maybe less than 10 years? All the mounting hardware is there, perhaps there are shims missing at the kick up and I've noticed two pads on the car are the universal round ones that have wide grooves on them instead of the square proper ones. The last person miscounted as to how many square ones were needed?
It appears the wrong upper washers were used, they are not concave to take up the rubber insulating washers. This is what I want to replace with the proper Torque spec, about 22 lbs. see photos.
In the Shop manual it reads if there is a door adj problem the frame bolts may need to be checked. No mention of Torque order such as a car wheel. Will have to find and buy an Assy manual, have the interior out and want to do it correctly

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

This is why you need FORD PARTS INFORMATION, especially if restoring/repairing.

It is obvious the person that re-did your wagon was just slapping it together with whatever they could come across with little or no concern for the finished product and/or future repairs..

Regarding shims-

Factory assembly most likely did not need them as everything was in engineering spec (or close). Shimming became necessary as a result of collision repair and/or warranty work.

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

Unfortunatly even the Ford book is not clear on what goes in that position.


I would venture a good guess that it is the square nut on a clip that holds down those bolts.


The clip attaching to the frame section so IF it did break off it would not be hard to replace the assembly.


Pictured included.


Oldmics

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

Your catalog(s) are CHASSIS. You need the BODY CATALOG to go where J needs to go. Both were also combined in the MASTER PARTS CATALOG of the period(s) and FINAL ISSUE.

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

You mean these books ?

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

Or this book ?

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

In all cases NONE of these books reference exactly what clip goes into that specific location.


That is why I took a somewhat educated guess at the style of clip used and posted up that picture of the clip from one of my T Bird frames at that over the axle location.


As you can plainly see I have the period books AND the period MPC and know how to use them.


I do not however have the 56 trim & sealer catologue so perhaps the elusive information is possible in that book.


This picture is from the MPC and is the same as printed in the 56 body catologue.


Oldmics

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

In your copy of the MPC (Publication Date?), go to BASIC PN 00154 and see what it shows.

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

Stumped !!!!!!!!!

My MPC only goes back to 57. It does have a 1957 part number but its for the rubber blocks not the clip


Currently away from my books at the CTCI Thunderbird Convention.


Back on Sunday


Oldmics

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

In your post of 8/13 2018 at 2:19am you have two photos. The photos show the correct upper rubber seal and steel washers used for the '55/56 Ford cars and wagons. In the second photo, you have the steel washer upside down on the rubber part. Turn the steel washer around and set it on the rubber part. That will be the factory correct installation

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

As far as fasteners, here is what you need:
The very front pair of fasteners consists of a threaded stud with a very thick round flatwasher and castle-nut on top for the cowl hold-down.
At the bump-up in the frame in front of where the rear axle housing is there is a pair of nuts inserted into the frame. You need the bolt, special steel washer and the rubber insulating washer. Between the floor and frame will be a square rubber pad and most likely steel shim(s) as needed.
The very rearmost pair of fasteners do not go through the floor at all. Under the wagon you should see two angle-iron shapes (one near each corner of the frame). these sit upon a square rubber washer which sits on the rearmost frame rail. A long bolt with thick flatwasher inserted upside-down through the holes sticks up through the angle shapes. There you install a round rubber pad, thick round flatwasher and castle-nut. The round rubber pad is about same thickness as a rubber floormat.
ALL of the other fasteners consist of a bolt, special steel washer and round rubber insulator installed at the floor. At each of these locations a "speed-nut" must be inserted onto the frame before the rubber pad can be placed upon the frame. Here, the square rubber pad sits on top of the speed-nut which is inserted onto the frame. Each speed-nut can be adjusted to align the holes thru the floor and the car frame.


It is best to have the car body slightly lifted off the frame to facilitate installation of the speed-nuts and square rubber pads AND allow for adjustment of the speed nuts. Once any given speed nut is properly aligned, I suggest inserting the bolt through and threading it into the speed-nut (but do not tighten). After all fasteners have been properly adjusted and bolts inserted then lower the body back down on the frame and begin tightening the bolts.

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

BTW, the body to frame installation process I described above, I actually did myself with no one helping in my humble garage at home using crude tools and every form of lowly house jack and scrap wood blocking to TWO '55 Fords (one fordor sedan and a Courier wagon).
I am a scrappy little wirey fellow, never stood more than 5'-6" tall and never weighed more than 102 lbs in my life. If I can do it, I know you can do it JW !!!

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

KULTULZ, I've ordered the assembly manual and should be here in a couple days...THX for suggestion.
OLDMICS, also THX, your photo of the side clip and nut is comparable to mine (most) but I'm concerned about the viability of the nut inside the frontal part of the kick-up area frame, should I attempt to replace the steel washer and insulating washer? I'm leaning on backing off the bolt and go or no go. Would dislike cutting floor pan to replace inside frame nut.
Daves55Sedan big THX for pointing out incorrect steel washer position. I was thinking, incorrectly, the hump of washer would absorb the rubber washer while torquing. My pads have been replaced, majority of steel washers are up side down!
Thanks all for your kind assistance. In process of installing SS Trim on quarter panels after painting. The long SS Trim on middle of Quarter panel the lower lip is cutting into the paint on the lower white portion. When the Assy man comes in will try and determine if any type of pad was there.

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

What is going on here? Taking the Drivers side outer up to 15lbs Torque and the washer is flattening, is this normal or the wrong setting?

Re: Bolt and nut frame to body issue
 

That is the ILL of the actual frame and actual mounting brackets (Ill Section 50). The mounts (and hardware) will be shown in Body Section 000. Actual mounting insulators and hardware listing(s) should be shown in Text Basic PN 00154 (along with other Basic PN's)