Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

I was having problems with my steering on my 31 slant windshield Fordor. The main symptom was the car seemed to wander, when going slow on our local roads, as they are not very smooth and have some slope (crown) here and there and groves, bumps, holes etc. Not real bad roads, but the car seemed to wander when these little imperfections were encountered.

There are other factors to consider, after reading these forums, but recently I read that the radius ball mount could cause this kind of symptom if it was worn or the mounting socket and ball were loose.

I found my car was converted to the rubber ball "fix" from the previous owner. The advice was to convert it back to the original style and use a shaped washer to take up the slack from the wear.

The net of this, is that I did change it back and the steering has improved. I think the rubber ball had deteriorated from age.

My questions are:

1. I bought the pre-shaped bent washer from Brattons along with the kit to change the mount back to original. I placed the washer on the bottom of the ball, as it was recommended by Les Andrews book. That made sense, in that my caster was too much and this seems to have brought it back closer to specs. But I found the washer would not stay parallel to the ground as I put this all back together. Because of the shank the steel ball is attached to, the washer looks like it has to move rearward in order to snug things up. The question is - is this ok and is this what others experienced. I don't want to radius ball popping out.

2. When I was doing this work, I was not able to remove the felt pad from the bell housing. I called Brattons and was told that the steel rod that holds the bolts from turning, goes through the felt pad. Brattons indicated that normally this is installed with the bell housing exposed, when the engine is removed, or the rear end is off. From what I've read, it appears that this conversion can be done with the engine and rear end installed. So how does one get the old felt pad out and how do you get a new felt pad in.

I've read the suggestions about putting a fishing line through the cotter holes in the bolts so you don't loose them in the housing etc. In my case, I decided to leave well enough alone and left the old felt pad and bolts in. After tightening everything up, I found the old bolts were a bit too long and and tightened beyond the cotter holes. Does anyone know if the original style bolts are a bit shorter.

After I tightened it all up, I have about a 3/16 gap between the upper and lower plate, which from what I read is about right. Bratton's suggested putting some flat washers on the end of the bolts to take up the extra length. I did that today and placed cotter pins in..

So for now, I plan to leave it as is, but if this is not advised, please let me know. And for future reference, how do you get the felt pad out and then get the new on in, since the housing hole is round and the pad is rectangular. And then do you run the steel rod throught the felt pad and how do you manage that and keep it in place?

Frank

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

First off the washer with the hole goes on top of the ball... The hole is for oil to weep into the ball for lube..
Second off did you measure the ball? You may not even need the washer as its to take up space for a worn ball.
Why even screw with the felt? The steel rod goes over the felt... Not through it

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

Your two bolts are too long because they were made for the thicker cast iron plates used with the larger diameter rubber ball. I have removed the cross pin and installed the whole new kit, but you'd better have nimble fingers and know the right words to say. I ran the cross pin through the felt on one kit, and ran it over the felt pad on the next kit.

You'll be fine with the old felt and stack of washers on the bolts. You can always change it later when you do a clutch or some other work in that area.

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

Thanks for the comments. I did a quick measurement of the ball. It had groves around the middle section, like a casting mark parallel to the ground, so don't know if that is normal, of if that was a result of wear. It measured about 1/10 of an inch under 1.5 inches, so basically 1.4 inches in diameter.

I suspect that the rubber ball was put in at some point, to correct a problem with the ball being too loose, but not sure of that.

My caster was too much and I've seen comments about adding the washer on top or on the bottom. By putting it on the bottom, it pushes the ball up into the top casting higher than if I put the washer on top and as a result, it reduced some of my caster, closer to spec.

I can see if I didn't need the washer at all, then the ball would be pushed up where it needs to be too.

I do have the metal plate with the hole in it on the top so oil can drip in. Right now, it seems to have helped the steering problem.

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

As Mitch said, typically the washer is put on top to account for the worn ball, pushing it down to add the positive caster back.
I like the added caster, it gives it a more positive feel to me, but some folks dont like it cause it adds steering effort.
Good Luck

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

The shaped washer wouldn't stay on top of the ball in my car - it kept slipping around till it was on the bottom. A tack of weld didn't do it either. The tack broke and the same thing happened again. This time I gave it a good zap with the welder and haven't looked at it again since. Not sure where the washer is now except that it is in there somewhere:D
As for the felt, I did several thousand miles in my car before I even knew about it. I wouldn't get too worked up about replacing it at all.

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

In my case, I had too much positive caster, so putting the washer on the bottom took some of that out, or made it closer to spec, but still a bit too much positive caster. Now the left side is 6.1 degrees and the right side is about 8.4 degrees. I would assume the axle is bent a little to cause that, but at this point, if it steers well, then I'll leave well enough alone.

I have float a motor mounts and I think they are about 18 years old. I am wondering if I replace the upper rubber mounts, would that raise the rear of the motor to bring caster closer to spec. Do those rubber mounts compress after a long period of time and would that be an advisable thing to do?

Les Andrews states that they are easy to replace, by jacking up the rear of the engine slightly and replacing the mounts. Would that cause any problems with stress or alignment of the engine to the drive shaft, or can a small amount of change be tolerated?

My main concern though is that the ball doesn't pop out of the socket, with the washer skewed slightly up from parallel. the washer seems to be butted up against the back edge of the upper cup where I can see it in the gap between the lower and upper cup, so it isn't that far off of parallel in the lower cup.

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

You might also have frame sag by the rear motor mounts. When the frame sags the rear of the tranny will get very close to the brake cross shaft, or even rub on it.

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

A little extra caster is NO BIG DEAL, as witnessed by guys that put in the '39 transmissions. Extra caster also helps the car return to STRAIGHT, after a QUICK turn. HARD TURNING is just TYPICAL on a Model A.
Bill W.

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

Just a thought for you. Drive the car down the road and turn loose of the steering wheel....Does it dart, one way or the other?
Typically with the caster split the way you describe, the car would turn left if you let go. The crown of the road will affect this, however.
On a car that has the caster equal on both sides, the crown in the road will usually make it veer to the right if you let go of the wheel. You can change this by running different tire pressures on each side of the car, or by running the caster split.
The only way to get the caster split the way you describe is for something to be bent, or twisted. Most would consider this to be a bad thing, but if you can steer the car without a conscious effort to hold it in the road, it might not be such a bad thing.
Most people adjust to what the car is doing, whether they realize it or not. Have somebody else drive the car, and if they come back and say the car pulls to the left, you ought to think about doing something different.
Good Luck!

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

Float A Motor mounts should have a rear mount on the transmission that has rubber between it and the frame. That helps hold the back of engine and transmission up from the brake parts. But I see most do not bother with that mount.

Re: Steering problem & converting Radius Ball mount back to original style
 

Thanks for the responses and all the good tips.