35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Hello, new guy here. Before passing, my father handed down to me his 35 Ford Cabriolet. It was his car when he was a kid. Became the daily driver after he married my mom and had us kids. When I got it, it was 99% complete and in need of a restoration. My dad had the engine rebuilt and had a new top made for it just before sending the car to me. I was able to restore the car and send him a picture of it winning a trophy at the local car show...he passed 2 days after getting the picture.
I am a competent mechanic but have little experience with flatheads and could use some insight and advice...so here I am. The problem I'm having...or think I'm having...is that I believe the car has the wrong distributor on it. Years ago, my dad converted the car to a 59 A-B engine which I think is supposed to have the distributor that has a single cap facing forward. My car has the helmet distributor with a cap on each side and the coil mounted to the top. The car has very few miles on it since I completed the restoration however, during these miles it seemed to run hot and when shutting it down and restarting it sounded to me like the timing was off...a hot restart is difficult. It starts, idles and runs great when it's cold though. The timing screw is all the way down to the lower limit of the slow. It seems to run best adjusted like that but it still doesn't seem like it's enough. I'd like to keep this distributor so I don't have to remote mount a coil and it would keep some of the original nostalgia of the original 35 engine. I'd like to ask for advice and options regarding what I can do to get the car running like it's supposed to. Thanks in advance. Kirk

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

The downside with early ford dizzys is that it has to come of and be set up in a timing fixture too be adjusted.
You can adjust the advance there to so let someone with the equipment give it a tuneup and then just bolt it back on.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Am I correct in assuming that the 59 AB is supposed to have the distributor with the single cap facing forward? If so, will a "helmet" distributor be able to work properly on it?

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Yes and yes. The 59 series engines had a V shaped cap, which was used (with a different bale) on the crab distributor. Your Dad removed the distributor and timing gear cover, replacing it with the cover and distributor as original to the car. This didn't seriously affect the engine's performance, only its appearance. As advised previously, remove the unit and send it, along with the coil, to:

Skip Haney www.fordcollector.com
Remanufactured coils and high volume modified water pumps for flatheads

Skip is not the only one to rebuild and set up distributors, but is the man to rebuild coils also. Most everyone eventually does business with Skip.

While talking with Skip, ask him to replace your advance plate with an 11A plate if it doesn't already have one, and that right there will make your distributor's performance equal to the 59A. you can look for it yourself, all 11A plates are so identified on the tang at the rear.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Thanks, it's great to know that I can keep that distributor. I have emailed Skip and will await to hear from him with respect on how to move forward with him rebuilding my water pumps, coil and distributor. Great site!

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Why not clean/adjust the points and reset the initial timing? It's obvious that there is a distributor problem ... probably simply from sitting for an extended period. Rebuild it if necessary, but I'd inspect it first and, since it's out of adjustment, clean and reset it.

Water pumps? Did your Dad use worn out water pumps when he rebuilt the engine? It's just as likely to be the radiator that's causing it to run hotter.

.... OR, the distributor timing being off.

Eventually you might want a rebuilt coil and Skip can do it. Right now, as a competent mechanic, you might want to focus on the distributor, clean the points and do a manual set up that does not require any "tune-up equipment." If you determine that it does in fact need rebuilding, you have some choices.

Snap the side caps off first then remove the distributor. Tight work on a '35.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

How do you adjust the dizzy without a timing fixture ?
And the vacum advance without a distributor machine ?
I must have a lot of extra equipment that i really dont need....

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

"How do you adjust the dizzy without a timing fixture ?
And the vacum advance without a distributor machine ?
I must have a lot of extra equipment that i really dont need.... "

Nobody has more extra equipment that they don't need than I do.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Thanks for the replies. Is there a printed procedure that I can use to set up the distributor without a timing fixture?

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Easy. Clean the points and make sure they are each making contact using a meter and while blocking the other set with a thin piece of card stock ... a piece of business card.

Set each set carefully to .015 with a good fit.

Adjust the initial advance index to one notch below the middle on the scale. Run it.

For the time being we will hope that the weighs are not stuck and that when the distributor was installed it was a working unit. Points will develop a "glaze" from sitting and that needs to be cleaned off.

It is easier ... but not necessary ... to pull this insides out of the case to work on the points. Remove the coil, the screw and index plate, remove the vacuum plunger, slide the insides out after spraying it with your favorite penetrant. Expect to have to clamp the bottom drive tang sideways in a vise and carefully tap the outer housing. The coil must be mounted on the distributor when you adjust the points. It isn't precision, but it will help define your problem.

Millions ... MILLIONS ... of distributors were set up using this method. And not just the ones that "ken ct" built.

This procedure does not work in Sweden. Don't know why ...

(BRING BACK KEN!)

(I'm tired of answering his questions for him.)

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

We have worn dizzys here...so timing and advance needs to be set in live conditions...
But Hoop is right and following his instructions will have you up and running.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Well, it's been up and running. Starts great and idles great and I can drive it. The timing screw is all the way at the bottom of the slot but in my experience it seems like it could use more in that direction. Running on the hot side and hard cranking to restart after warm. It's a fairly fresh professional rebuild that my dad had done but I would suspect that the alternator wasn't a part of that rebuild process. I'm no stranger to points vehicles...dealt with them most of my life. Currently have a 56 Chevy truck and a 63 bug (my first car). Flathead distributors are a different beast though. No problem digging into it down to bare bones and rebuilding it but this would be my first time with one of these and I don't like going into it blind. I respect those with experience and welcome useful advice (which has been given) to send me down the right road. My dad raised me to believe that if someone can do it there's no reason I can't too. That's how I've lived my life. If I need to buy a $500 tool...I'll buy it. If I can do the same job without that tool then I'll give that a try. I would always rather do something myself than to pay somebody to do it for me...even if it takes buying specialized tools. This Cabriolet has unbelievable family and sentimental value to me. It's completely restored so it might have some monetary value as well but that doesn't concern me. I'd be surprised if I put 50 miles a year on it but I want thing right. If I need to sent the alternator in...I'll do that. If I can get it running the way it should on my own...I would prefer that. I don't like it running hot and being hard to start after being warmed up. If I can solve these two problems...I'm good.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Kirk,

Your engine and its distributor were designed as a system. The distributor was designed to be set/adjusted off the engine ... with the distributor so calibrated, you should expect the engine to run properly.

UNLESS, there are other problems. You cannot start to look for the other problems until the distributor is correct. What you have told us is that the distributor is out of its normal range of adjustment ... that's a Band-aid for a problem.

It could be simply dirty, improperly adjusted points. But, that's where you start. If the engine does not run satisfactorily after tending to the distributor, you move on. You set the distributor ... if you are still having problems, find what causing them knowing that the distributor is correct.

No matter what, your distributor needs attention.

The flathead distributor is not a different beast, by the way ... other than looks. The second set of points seem to scare the hell out of people.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

When I said it's a different beast, I meant that it's not something that you simply adjust with a dwell meter and timing light. I'll pop it off this weekend and take a look at it. I'll post what I find. Thanks for all your help and advice.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

CK,
Most of us here lean towards doing it yourself, it is A way to learn. To sort
of ease your way into freshening your distributor I can recommend getting a duplicate
dist. somewhere to get the feel of the thing. Break it down and reassemble it a couple
times and you'll soon be an expert. You'll notice the mechanical advance mechanism,
which as Hoop says might be in need of freeing up. The vacuum brake etc.
When you get to rebuild the dist that is going on your Dads '35 keep some-
thing in mind.....the big bushing in the iron sleeve and the diameter on the rotor
shaft that spins in the big bushing, these items are the heart of this thing. Replace-
ment bushings are available but that is 1/2 of the story....the rotor shaft diameter
is almost always worn and not worn straight. Sometimes the shaft is bent in the
necked down, you'll see what I mean when you get things apart. What I do after I'm
sure the shaft is not bent is grab the it by the 1/2" dia that the advance mechan-
ism rotates on ( you've stripped the shaft at this point ) remachine the big diam
straight and round. I rebush the sleeve with an undersize bushing and bore to get
.0008 -.001 clearance max. You now have a proper foundation.
After the rebuild I think it is a good idea to mount the distributor on a spare
front cover and tighten the attaching cap screws up. At this point you must be able
to rotate the rotor shaft by hand with a slight drag, omitting this step can be disas-
trous. You want a .002 - .003 in and out movement of the shaft as well.
Now the points can be set with a feeler or however you wish. A timing
fixture gives you degrees dwell of course and sort of ignores what the gap actually
measures, sometime the gap and dwell work out real nice sometimes not...Bubba
can explain that.
Piece of cake.
Charlie ny

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Charlie, thanks for the post. It gives me a good idea of what to look for. Is there a good source for replacement parts...caps, rotors, bushings, points...etc? One poster mentioned an 11A advance plate...if it improves the way the engine runs I wouldn't mind getting one of those either. I printed off a schematic of the thing and there isn't anything there that looks alarming to me. I don't know the history of this distributor but my dad sent up 3 or 4 spares when he sent the car up to me. When he got the engine back from the rebuilder, I'd bet he just grabbed the nicest LOOKING distributor on the shelf. I plan on pulling it off the car this weekend and digging into it.
I messed with the timing screw several years ago when I first finished the car. Timed it by ear and it ran best (but not completely right) with the screw all the way at the bottom limit. I knew that it wasn't right but attributed it to not being the correct distributor for the AB engine. I have learned here that the distributors are interchangeable and that the problem is internal to this distributor. Is the vacuum plunger a wear item? If so, what is the allowable wear limit? This might be a really stupid question but in the last 80 years...why hasn't someone "invented" a means of indexing the crank pulley and slapping a timing light on it? Apologies if that question caused everybody's head to explode! Anyway, this is going to be a fun project and I'm looking forward to it. If anybody is interested, I can post what I find when I get the thing out and stripped down.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

"This might be a really stupid question but in the last 80 years...why hasn't someone "invented" a means of indexing the crank pulley and slapping a timing light on it?"

Because it isn't needed. I tried to give you good advice and Charlie expanded on it with details IF you should have to completely rebuild the distributor.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Hoop, The guy asked a legitimate question and deserves better than that. As you picked that particular question to answer, please take a few minutes to compose an explanation worthy of your knowledge and experience.

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

Alan, timing marks and a timing light are not needed. If you think a longer explanation is needed, why don't you just post it?

Re: 35 Cabriolet distributor
 

CK,
On the dists that attach with 3 cap screws you advance the timing by moving
the tab up, generally 1 or 2 marks past the neutral line. Back the vac brake plunger
off using your finger or a REAL light touch with a wrench, the pusher on the other end
of the adjuster hex is fragile and can be stripped....trust me. Once this dist is under-
stood it's clear the timing marks on the dist are sufficient. Those of us who are anal
do put the more standard timing mark and pointer on early flatheads during a build.
ANYHOO
Now that we know your Dad chose the best looking dist why not take a
gamble and just file the points to remove any bugs and reset gap to .015 like Hoop suggested. Move the tab up two marks past neutral and give it a go. Remember to
back the vac brake off.
Charlie ny