Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

There has been a much written about the Zenith and Tillotson carburetors. Is anyone who is knowledgeable interested in writing about the Marvel-Schebler carburetor giving details about servicing and rebuilding?

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Sadly I think it has not been done. We ourselves on the forum have made some interesting discoveries - like hex versus slotted versus replacement Zenith GAV drivers. Also some variations on the use of washers and fiber packing as "detent" or seal under the GAV needles.

But to my knowledge no one has examined the "innards" including jets (I hear they are non-replaceable) or even tracing the passages and getting a read on what the thing is capable of.

I had heard of parts available, but had not traced it down - until I read it on this board. Those pesky fillister headed screws are almost impossible to find.

I know of one respondent who is perfectly qualified in this realm, having done similar for at least two other carburetor makes. But he has a life of his own I'm sure and it's not my task to give it away for him.

He, or someone, could do the hobby a large favor though. A lot of us are partial to the M-S carbs.

You're in good hands with Allstate - the Carburetors anyway.

Joe K

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

I don't know anything about them but I have had one on my roadster for years and it works great. Better, in my opinion than a Zenith or Tillitson. I acquired mine by accident-at a swap meet early one morning and bought it thinking it was a Tillitson until I got it home and looked at it. What the heck, I figured, I'll give it a try. I took it apart, cleaned everything, and put it back together and I really like it a lot. I'd by another one if I ran across one. It does worry me that there are no parts available that I know of. I made a really crude gasket for it that seems to work.

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

I think I have an article on Marvel carbs in the car. I will dig it out and check tomorrow. Renners Corner I believe is the only place to get parts for these carbs now.

Mike

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Hi All

I never thought there was much interest in these carbs. I have one that has all the lead plugs removed and I did map out the passages many years ago but didn't document anything. I there is this much interest I could do this again. I could take pictures with circle and arrows and a paragraph on be back on each one explaining ... (Alice's Restaurant just popped into my head).

Anyway, there are other sources of gaskets other than Renner's Corner:
- Smith and Jones Antique Auto Parts
- Tam's Model A Parts
- Mike's "A" Ford-Able Parts
Look under carburetors.

Just for fun here's another Marvel but for a Ch***. Notice no GAV and an accelerator pump.

Let me know what you would like.

Jeff

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Hey Jeff, I believe there is an interest because the posts I've read say these are good carburetors, give more power than Zenith's or Tillotson's and are less complicated. Of course most of that is just a matter of opinion but why not detail some information? After all the Tillotson was a replacement for the Zenith and look at all that has been written about it.

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Since you mentioned the Tillotson carb I'll give you a little history as Tillsotson and Marvel-Schebler are related.

The Wheeler-Schebler Carburetor Company was formed in 1904, it holds the 1925 patent "1536043.

In 1928 the Borg-Warner Corporation was formed from 5 companies, Wheeler-Schebler being one of these. At this time the company was renamed to Marvel-Schebler Carburetor Company.

Somtime after this Borg-Warner acquired Tillotson, I don't know the year (50s ?).

In 1971 Marvel-Schebler was merged with Tillotson still under the Borg-Warner banner.

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

I think I've made my case with everyone's input!

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Here's a couple of pictures of the insert that came with the Sear Allstate 2405 model.

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Great! I knew something would come out of the woodwork.......thanks Jeff.

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

I'll start by looking at the outside of two different carbs. The one on the left is the one I'll sacrifice, on the right is my unmolested carb with a slotted GAV.
There are only a few external differences between the two but I imagine the internals will be close.

The first picture is looking from the driver's side. If you look closely it can be seen that the two lower castings are different, look closely at the size of the letters and numbers. Also look closely at the lower right corner of the gas bowl, it is rounder on the right hand carb.

The second picture is of the passenger side. The only difference here is the throttle actuator, it is made of three parts on the right hand carb a opposed to the one piece on the left carb. Note: the left carb has a slotted GAV needle. This carb didn't have a needle when I got it, I made this needle. I believe it should have a hex needle.

The Third picture is from the rear, not much difference here.

The fourth picture is bottom, once again the difference in the bowls can be seen at the left of each carb.

The fifth is from the front, once again notice the throttle actuator.

The last picture is a closeup from a Sears insert dated 1946. It shows the three piece throttle actuator so maybe this helps date the slotted GAV.

More to come as time permits.
Jeff

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

The following page from a MS Service Bulletin shows production of these carburetors stopped and parts became unavailable sometime before February 1964. It also suggests a replacement.

Jeff

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

As in "we don't want to mess around with this carburetor any more but we have something we make now that will work."

Meanwhile one gives up their GAV and hopes for the best with what they buy.

Small and dwindling marketshare in Model A land methinks. More money to be made elsewhere.

Well, it is the story of America...

I had noticed the difference in the lower bowl castings. For purposes of identification let's call the deeper one "Type D" and the shallower one "Type S."

Typestudies are the information battleground in the computer age. Always best to map out the terrain ahead of a frontal assault.

Heh. Both of my Marvel/Allstates are "Type S" with the pressed steel one piece throttle.

$3 - I still Marvel. (joke here.)

Joe K

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Jeff do you have a quality scan of these documents?

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

I have had one in my collection for about 20 years and with a lull in things to do, I dug up information on it and started out on it. One mounting threaded hole is stripped out which I understand quite often happens when one is over torquing the 5/16-18 bolts. Well with that aside, using a bolt and nut, I cleaned it up, got some make shift gaskets made and cleaned it out and reassembled it and found all the leaks in the fitting. Float had been soldered a bunch but still floated. Cleaned all the passages I could see and reassembled it and put it on the car. Well to my surprise, it performed like a Tully but with a a little more spunk, get up and go. Like the Tully, it has a noticeable response to the dash control,GAV, with added get up when is is opened up in a climb up a hill. I suspect it will be a good performer when in mountains at higher altitudes when you want to lean it out some. It is on my shelf the next time I head into the mountains. I don't know what will happen to mileage as I get a consistent 22 mpg with my Zenith. I have ordered gaskets and fittings from Renner's Corners. If anyone knows a source for a Float, I would like to hear about where. A coupe of heli-coils are in order and a flattening of the of the mounting surface to insure a mounting seal as it is warped some. Check one out and try it.

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Jeff has a great thread on the Marvel. I think it's still active.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139836

Let us know how the kit from Renner's works out.

I think you can get float valves from Steiner Tractor...

I'm not completely sure if this is the correct one..

https://www.steinertractor.com/ABC13...le-float-valve

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

I believe that is the correct float valve, but what I need is the Float. I have sent a note to Steiner Tractor to see if they have one. The JDS 600 is a close looking one.

Thanks for the lead.

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Does the kit from Renner's include a valve? I know they list one but it's a ball type and pretty expensive.

I've not seen anything on the floats, but that one looks close...

Does your carb have a number on it?

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

i have one of these carbs acquired from who knows where...Nice to know they are well liked!

Re: Looking for a Good Soul to Detail the Marvel Carburetor
 

Dave Renner at rennerscorner.com says they have numerous Marvels and all the parts for them, even though they only advertise the rebuild kits and misc other parts.

Just get in touch and he'll fix you up...even a totally rebuilt one.

I've rebuilt several and always could get what I needed from him.

The main jet that screws up into the drain plug hole is the same as the Tilly.

It would be interesting to know when certain changes were made on the Marvels, though,

like switching the GAV valve hex needle to the Zenith/Tilly style.

Many of the Marvels I find are missing the hex GAV valve and driver. I believe Renner is the only one that has them (spendy, too).

Cheers...