Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Am I correct in thinking that the Model A engine was built using copper head gaskets? I never had much luck with copper on a couple V8 Ford engines so I thought I would go with the Best gasket that Brattons sells,Kevlar and graphite. Anyone successfully use this gasket? I am having second thoughts because of a post from an experienced engine rebuilder who uses only copper.Brattons sells a Felpro copper gasket but only says it has a gray material in the middle not what kind.A better copper gasket available preferably USA?

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Back in the '50s I did a LOT of work on flathead V8s, the available head gaskets were either copper clad or steel clad. We always used the copper clad ones with no sealer and never had a problem. You have to be sure that both the head and the block are perfectly clean and that the gasket is installed w/the proper side up.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

More info on the Ford Garage.
Home page http://www.fordgarage.com/


Head Gasket info http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABcy...asketguide.htm
Do not see info on a solid copper gasket. Has info on what was originally used.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

I prefer copper as they are easier to remove and can often be re-used. I've never had a problem with them sealing. Best makes their #509 in copper or some kind of material that works well but is a pain to scrape off when changing heads.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

The Secrets of Speed Society recommends the Best Graphtite gaskets with no sealant. I have never had a problem with these gaskets either with Y-Blocks or Model As. They recommend 55 ft lbs max.


http://www.secretsofspeed.com/gaskets.htm

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Whichever Best gasket you use,they reccomend copper coat spray. I use the grapftite on my A and Flathead.

John

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Back when Brumfield was making heads he would not honor warranty if any head gasket was used other than the Copper FelPro 7013.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

And I agree with Larry.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Don't think that I've ever heard of a solid copper head gasket. If there was one it would have to be pretty soft copper.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Thanks for correcting me, was a misunderstanding on my part from a long ago previous post.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

I recently installed a Best brand kevlar (they call it graphite) head gasket on a Model A. I followed all directions exactly. No water seepage, however when pulling a hill in 3rd gear at 45 MPH or so, the combustion gasses are getting into coolant and blowing the water out the radiator overflow.

Yes, I have re-torqued it (read above where I followed ALL directions). The block/head are flat.

Going back to copper gaskets. No problem with those.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Kinda what I wanted to hear or didn't want to hear. Copper sprayed with Ultra Copper? I only want to do this once.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Are you sure that is what is happening? Have you had the coolant checked by a radiator shop for combustion gasses? Could it be the motor is getting a little hotter pulling the hill, the water warms up a little more and expands a little more and comes out the overflow?

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Could also do radiator exhaust test yourself. $45 dollar Napa Block test kit.


Radiator issue? -How old is it?
- Has it been flushed and back flushed recently?
- Empty it, block the upper and lower openings, should hold 1 1/2 gallons.
- Could be partially plugged or if old fins not making good contact with tubes.
- How old is the radiator, fins/inch, rows ?.
- When run and and stop/turn off, does it burp coolant? (running hot?)

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

When using the spray type copper products on head gaskets I do three light coats and allow plenty of time between coats to let the solvents flash off making it very tacky.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

I know you guys are just trying to be helpful, and I thank you.

However, I am most positive that it is combistion gases blowing into the coolant. No question. That is fact. Otherwise, I wouldn't have said it.

Fordbarn forum can be a blessing and a curse at the same time. Someone comes on here and says their steering is loose and there is always someone quick to tell them their timing is off.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

We produce a copper one that is sealed around outside edge so no weeping down the block , can also be used on B engines too . Wet & cold in NZ plus 6.7 earth quake few mins ago.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Copper!!!! Larry Brumfield knows!!!

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

I sure wish there was a firm consensus!

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251825

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

To each their own.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Exactly.But I just wonder what makes copper better? Because it was what was used originally although with asbestos in the middle? Or because it is a soft metal that holds up well or conforms better? Or is a modern material like Kevlar stronger but just never used by traditionalist? The gasket that is the one that I thought was bad is copper a Victor one but it could have been bad because of timing and overheat due to another issue. I know some say you can reuse copper but this one has not life in it after one cycle but that could be because of overtorquing from previous owner who"don't need no stinkin' torque wrench". Had a built in one on his arm supposedly.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

This seems to be another topic similar to "what is the best oil". Lots of lively discussion where opinions vary.


Opinions vary due to personal preference based on each Barn member's experience's and understandings. If enough opinions are expressed you may see a trend. Another source of info may be to talk to reputable motor rebuilders or Model A restoration shops who have done a ton of them, ask what they use and why they use what they use.


Whatever you use, my recommendation is to use correct replacement method for the gasket. Prep the surfaces properly, use the correct sealer for the gasket if it is needed, make sure the head has been magnafluxed and checked/ground properly, check the block similarly. Once assembled re-torque the head multiple times as recommended, and in the proper sequence. Doing this should minimize encountering problems. Some recommend re-torqueing the head yearly. Even some of this info might create some discussion opinion.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Here is an example of a recommended gasket replacement procedure.


http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/brum...structions.htm

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Step # 7 Do not use gasket on the water neck but smear red silicone? really why did I buy that gasket and I bought it in copper?

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Tried the new ones and had three fail! Copper the only way to go!!! that's a firm consensus!! Torque by Brumfield specs you will have no problem,if head and block are flat and proper head studs.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Yeah he does not explain that. IMO he prefers that method so the neck studs can fully torqued as outlined (20- 40, 55 or 60). When using the copper gasket, when you torque the neck, the "ears" where the nuts seats can crack or break off.


IMO. Using the copper gasket is OK, but a more gradual torqueing side to side on these 2 studs/nuts is better, on those 2, 20-40-50-55 or 60 (depending on the head). I was just saying it was an example procedure, you can look at other procedures like in the Les Andrews book. I like this one because most reasons why are detailed, and works for that style head, written by the head manufacturer.


Others on the Barn have slightly different methods that have worked for them. Ex: instead of a single light coat of the copper spay, spray 2 or 3 coats.


Confusing yes, frequently when these alternate methods are suggested, the reason why is missing.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

From what I have heard, read - IMO I agree, but am always open to being corrected if my understanding is not correct. Still think the copper neck gasket is ok if a gradual torqueing is performed on it. If my understanding is wrong, please give reasons, hate to give bad/marginal advice.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

My limited experience with a goose neck gasket is it doesn’t torque the same as the rest. after the other 10 are holding torque, you still have to keep going on the goose neck. I like to file flat and use sealer.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Not using a gasket under the water neck and using silicone with no gasket it allows flat metal to metal contact which will stand the greatest torque with least risk of breaking neck in accordance with the greater torque amount advised for Brumfield Heads.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

I've used the copper gasket multiple times. Torqued to 65 lb-ft no problem (30-50-60-65). I have heard of others reporting problems with the paper gasket.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

I don't know about you but any time i fit a water outlet without a gasket no matter how flat it is, it'll crack.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

Never had a leak or cracked neck from using sealant instead of gasket. The Best brand head gasket referred to is called GraphTite. Is has Kevlar layer in it also. I have never seen a GraphTite failure. I have seen a copper gasket failure recently. Any gasket will fail if your block and or head is not flat. Speaking of reference to information in Les Andrews book, ask Les what he recommends using now. I met Les and talked with him in length at the MAFCA national convention this year in Sparks, NV. We talked about head gaskets and he advises to use the GraphTite gasket.

Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?
 

I think this response is very interesting that Les Andrews has endorsed the graphtite head gasket. I used similar composite gaskets on a 59AB engine 12 years ago and they are still good after a copper failure. I did install the graphtite on the Model A engine yesterday so I guess I will see.