frame crack repair
 

Removed the tranny from my '36 pickup for repair and found this unpleasant surprise-2 cracks in the rear frame member right where the spring hangers sit.The 2 pics are looking up from below at the inside of the frame member.I realize the optimum would be remove the pickup bed, find a decent crossmember and put it in, but logistically that's not feasible right now, so I would like to try an in situ repair.It's difficult because the bead would have to be ground down to allow the spring hanger to go back on. I would put a patch on the outside (rear) of the frame member like the one I bent up, with 2 loops to pass over the spring hangers-made from 3/16th mild steel-see third pic.


I would like some input from people experienced with frame repair:


Is this even feasible, with reasonable hope for successful repair?


If so, would MIG or stick be OK? Or is TIG needed? I would have to get a mobile welder to my garage, I know this is not a job for my oxyacetylene torch (!) Thanks,
Adam

Re: frame crack repair
 

Can you get in there enough to V out the cracks and get a TIG torch in to weld both sides of the cracks? I believe I could easily get my water cooled Weldcraft WP-20 torch in there with a "button cap" on the back and have no problem welding it.

If you have the welding skills or know somebody who does, then I'd TIG weld it and you could add a 3/16 thick gusset plate (with a hole in the center) that would strengthen the bottom (where the hole goes through). With two small gusset plates welded in place and the crack welded, should be more than strong enough. Actually it should be stronger than when built.

If I was going to make the bottom gussets, would make 4 of them and do all four holes the same.

Also, if you had a 220V 50A circuit in your garage, a "suitcase" welder like my Miller 200 would have more than enough amps to tackle the job - and the welder only weighs about 40 - 50 lbs. If I was close, I'd do it for yah! Anybody else around that you know???

Re: frame crack repair
 

Or drill out the rivits and replace it. Thats a fairly common crossmember

Re: frame crack repair
 

+1 on BoredandStroked approach; V, gussets, and TIG

Definitely not a situation for a booger / stick weld

Re: frame crack repair
 

Thanks for the responses, it sounds like it's doable. Bored&Stroked, there's plenty of access to V the cracks (gas tank is out) and I like the idea of the gussets, I do have 220 in my garage-wish I had the TIG welder (and skill!) to do it myself-if you were close I would definitely take you up on the offer. Do you think it's worth adding the patch I made up for the outside of the crossmember(3rd picture)? Belt and suspenders?
Skidmarks, I would do the "drill-rivets -and-replace" but like I say I just can't make it work logistically right now to get the bed off, store it someplace and find a new crossmember.

Adam

Re: frame crack repair
 

Hey Adam . . . BTW, used to hang out in Mill Valley when I would come up and see Autodesk. I was in the software business and knew them from the day they introduced their first set of products at the Comdex show in Vegas - probably about 1982 or so.

Okay, back to 36 Fords: I don't see any real need for your "belt and suspenders" - would look like a "farm repair" to me (which isn't to say that is a bad thing as back in the day, one did what they had to do to keep a car on the road). I think the V out, TIG on both sides first, then adding the four little gussets as the last step would be more than adequate. I'd make the gussets out of 3/16 strap, as wide as possible and still allow the the spring and u-bolts to be installed. After looking at it, might even just make one "longer one" per side (with 2 holes in it).

Would probably carry it out past the bolt hole as far as possible - probably to about where the cross-member starts to kick-up. If it was done nicely - shaped and finished well (with good TIG welds), would almost look like it was planned that way. Good luck!

Re: frame crack repair
 

B&S,we moved to Mill Valley in 1984-frankly, it used to be a lot nicer place, there were three auto parts stores, hardware store, locksmith, etc downtown-now you could buy a $5000 Armani suit no problem, but try to find an oil filter and you are SOL.And don't get me started on the politics...
I'll certainly do the gussets (a long one each side) and V the cracks as you suggest, hopefully I can find a mobile welder to come out to do it. Not too worried about the appearance if I did put a patch on, it's a nice truck, pretty original (221 babbitt bearing motor, except for hydraulic brakes and 3.78 rear end)but I do use it for hauling stuff around all the time and it has plenty of nicks and scratches, so a "farm patch" wouldn't be too out of place.

Adam

Re: frame crack repair
 

Most guys that have been in the welding fabrication business for a long time will usually have a hand movable machine to do tig work. I call a guy in to weld up cracks in the old Bell 47 frames. I set up the reinforcement pieces and have it ready to weld before he gets to the shop. He is AWS certified and I am not but I can certify his welds as far as the FAA is concerned since I am certified with them. I've had to run his pedal a time or two when he gets in difficult spots.

On older frames that have had fatigue set in, it's a good idea to normalize the whole member but I know it's not always practical. This is the reason a lot of folks fabricate an overlay patch for the area of concern Just welding the crack will normalize the area welded but adjacent areas may still have fatigue. They tend to crack again under stress. A reinforcement will usually keep that from happening but that area where the U-bolt has to fit close does complicate things. Having the joggled areas for the bolts to pass is a novel idea that may work for that area. Give it a shot and see how it works out. The roads are better now days for the most part. Pickups generally have a harder life than a car but most folks take pretty good care of their antiques.

Re: frame crack repair
 

Rotorwrench, I will give it a try proceeding as Bored and Stroked recommended, if it cracks again I will have to bite the bullet and take the bed off and find a better crossmember. I do use the truck all the time to haul stuff around (i.e. I use it as it was intended) but I don't abuse or overload it-I save that for my son's '87 Mazda pickup :)

Adam

Re: frame crack repair
 

A stick machine does not produce "booger" welds; an unskilled operator does.

Probably more messes made with wire welders now-a-days anyways.

Re: frame crack repair
 

No matter what the medium, it’s all about the skill of the operator.
Find someone who is proven at their trade.

Re: frame crack repair
 

If it was mine I wouldn't hesistate to drill a hole at the end of the crack to keep it from spreading, vee it out with a die grinder, then mig it up and grind it smooth.

Re: frame crack repair
 

My sincere apologies to the stick welding community

Re: frame crack repair
 

I always weld up the crack first and even the stop drill. I stop drill to keep the crack from growing during the weld but I weld it up last. I still use a gas torch but it doesn't do upside down well at all. I don't like stick because the weld rod it too hard even if it will weld upside down on reverse polarity. A tig torch is about the best thing going for a part that is in place and can't be turned over. It would likely need to be V'd out if a person wants to weld it from above. It's the only way to insure good penetration. finish the weld and then weld on the reinforcement.

If you have someone in mind to weld it, you may want to consult with them about the situation before doing anything. They can tell you how the best way to do it is.

Re: frame crack repair
 

That is exactly as I would do it and not actually too bad of a job (as long as you can get the torch and filler rod where they need to go).

Re: frame crack repair
 

Ask a pipe welder about welding upside down. There is an awful lot of over thinking going on. And you better have it squeaky clean if you heli-arc it. Considering the amount of grease and dirt i have cleaned out of crossmembers.

A real welder can do it all otherwise change the crossmember

Re: frame crack repair
 

Reminds me of the old saying, "if you can't be a good welder, you need to be a good grinder".
I've got a crack in the frame of the big old 46 Ford truck frame that is now converted to a bale wagon. Right near the spring hanger bracket. If/when I do try to repair it I'll use the old 180 amp Smith Roles stick welder.

Re: frame crack repair
 

I had a pro come out to weld this today. He stop drilled and v'd the cracks, ground down the beads enough to have the U-bolts go on, tacked the patch, removed the U-bolts and welded the patch, welded the gusset that Bored and Stroked recommended around the holes,, then we put the U-bolts back on-see pics. It looks pretty strong to me, time will tell-as I said, if this fails it's going to mean taking off the bed and replacing the crossmember but I'd rather not deal with that right now.

Adam

Re: frame crack repair
 

The welder did a good job. For the life of me though, I cant see why the modern approach seems to be the stack o dimes look. ( I suppose it's from tig welding.) Personally I prefer a nicely laid down bead.

I do think the repair will be perfectly serviceable, though, especially with the strengthening gussets added.

Re: frame crack repair
 

It looks like the top of the crossmember is deformed where the center bolt of the spring locates. Be sure that the spring bolt is seated in the hole to locate it side to side.