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-   -   Water pump with no grease fittings (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=267774)

chrs1961815 08-12-2019 07:41 AM

Water pump with no grease fittings
 

I am rebuilding an April 29 engine so the water pump with no grease fittings is the correct one to use. Question: is it worth using this one just for authenticity? No grease fittings and a bushing in place of the front bearing must make it wear quicker right?

Joe K 08-12-2019 07:52 AM

Re: Water pump with no grease fittings
 

There are MANY water pumps. I have at least six different variants upstairs in my barn as a kind of display of variation.

To my knowledge Only Model A era Ford pumps include the brass pressure tight alemite fitting (brass cap) and the alemite front bearing fitting.

Ford did experiment a bit with the pumps along the way. Came to me from a parts box was a pump which had the standard shaft/impeller/gland, but the front nose of the pump was "small" and contained only a brass (very worn out) bushing. It did have grease fitting both front and rear and other than the non-roller bearing front was identical to Ford. As you have found, this design was not Ford's best.

Some pumps appearing similar to the Model A have NO gland nut - these may have been provided by Ford after the onset of the V8 engine as they have the same impeller as the two V8 pumps used in the V8. These usually have only a front grease fitting as the rear is "self sealing and lubricating" like their V8 cousin.

But a whole gamut of other aftermarket pumps exist.

Were this mine, I would source a casting from Ebay, and build up a pump more in the conventional Ford design.

See Vince Falter's comments on pump repop parts at http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/waterpumpshafts.htm

There is more interesting information on water pumps (and most everything else Model A) at Vince's site. www.fordgarage.com

Joe K

chrs1961815 08-12-2019 09:24 AM

Re: Water pump with no grease fittings
 

It was an alternate design between April 29 and 30 according to the JS. I Think I will just use another regular old casting I have.

Joe K 08-12-2019 11:06 AM

Re: Water pump with no grease fittings
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrs1961815 (Post 1787133)
It was an alternate design between April 29 and 30 according to the JS. I Think I will just use another regular old casting I have.

That may explain my "box of parts." It came with the March 1929 CC pickup and included the water pump (there was a usual one on the truck) a headlight shell (Type "H" with the small hole) and a tail-light bracket which was unlike any I had seen to that time.

The tail-light bracket (as it turns out) was the one associated with the drum tail-light.

I concluded my truck originally had "Type H" headlights and the drum tail-light - although it was fitted with all later parts. The truck line is of course where Henry dumped outmoded or obsoleted parts and the Twolight headlights would be normal for domestic auto production.

The former owner had some experience with Model A having done up a nice prize winning roadster. But in 1978 trucks were still "farm vehicles" and unworthy of Model A attention. That $425 complete CC pickup body seen at the Norton, MA Antique Auto Flea Market then still sticks in my mind.

Like buying land in 1982, I should have bought TWO building lots.

Hind-sight is 20-20 of course.

Joe K

chrs1961815 08-13-2019 11:12 PM

Re: Water pump with no grease fittings
 

Here is an interesting one: I dug out a regular old design one and blasted it and discovered it was not so regular either. It had casting marks originally, which US ones did not. It had A L stamped on top and I put two and two together that perhaps A&L made this other pump years ago.

At least that one is a little better than the other one: the packing nut was soldered on in addition to the threads and the front bushing had broke on the lower part so the shaft ground into the casting (could that even be fixed?) A bit. At least I am making progress!

Joe K 08-14-2019 05:51 PM

Re: Water pump with no grease fittings
 

Quote:

At least that one is a little better than the other one: the packing nut was soldered on in addition to the threads and the front bushing had broke on the lower part so the shaft ground into the casting (could that even be fixed?) A bit. At least I am making progress!
Carefully examine that packing nut and the threaded bushing - it may be hiding a later rubber lip seal (these were available "loose" for installation by a dedicated restorer and solder might have been used in lieu of the teflon tape usually used in this application.)

The front nose of the pump can possibly be used if one does the "Timken Cup Bearing" modification. Loading would be taken by the cup and less the housing body. The Timken bearing sleeve is hardened and a perfect match for the STANDARD diameter shaft. Aftermarket shafts can be used but you have to "knurl" the shaft to bring it up to an interference fit with the hardened bush hole.

See Vince Falter's discussion of water pump shafts. The Timken mod is discussed at Macs and he sells the kit. His seems to not need to use the former bearing sleeve. See https://www.macsautoparts.com/assets...acs/A8530M.pdf

Joe K

Bill Cilker 08-14-2019 06:07 PM

Re: Water pump with no grease fittings
 

The only reason to use the water pump with the front bushing, is if you were planning on entering your Model A in fine point judging. Other wise I would use April 1928 to End of production style water pump. Water pump housings are inexpensive and easy to fine. Original castings had no markings and the shaft hole for the front bearing area was slightly larger than the shaft. See page 3-6 of the latest restoration guidelines


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