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-   -   Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500? (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262047)

Ol' Ron 04-18-2019 03:14 PM

Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

Ford ran several car at the 35 Indy 500. They were built by Harry Miller and were front wheel drive. They left the racer after ??? laps with steering box failure. I can't find any information on the engines. The cars were capable of over 100 MPH lap speeds. Looking for information on these cars and engines. Thanks Gramps
PS just made it to 86, don't plan ahead much.

Darrell S 04-18-2019 03:40 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

Happy Birthday! You have 5 years on me but I understand.

FritzJr 04-18-2019 03:50 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

The legend is that the engines in those race cars used a 2 x 2 intake manifold with the carbs mounted "backwards" due to the front wheel drive. The patterns for these manifolds were supposedly used after WW II to produce the Hexagon Tool manifolds.

rockfla 04-18-2019 03:52 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

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The most beautiful Indy racer ever built IMO.

RalphM 04-18-2019 03:58 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

Love the 35 grille!

KiWinUS 04-18-2019 03:59 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

Check Speedway motors website
Says engines were ported hot cam balanced Bonalite heads @ 9.5 compression & 4 single barrel carbs “special “ 4 ring pistons

tinman080 04-18-2019 04:13 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

The steering boxes were not shielded from the exhausts. As the steering box got hotter with each lap the steering got tighter and tighter, eventually leading to cars that could not be steered. HF was pissed and never went back.

Tim Ayers 04-18-2019 04:24 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by FritzJr (Post 1748298)
The legend is that the engines in those race cars used a 2 x 2 intake manifold with the carbs mounted "backwards" due to the front wheel drive. The patterns for these manifolds were supposedly used after WW II to produce the Hexagon Tool manifolds.

Yes, kinda of. Originally, the cars were set up with a Miller-designed 4x1 bbl intake.

Edsel worked with the Hexagon Tool Co. to produce a 2x2 intake (with carbs mounted 180 degrees backwards) using 2 bbl. Strombergs (48's?).

The 2X2 equipped Stromberg cars ran better and a fair number (no sure how many) of the '35 Ford Indy cars then used this induction set up.

As Ron mentioned, exhaust ran too close to the steering box and then cooked the internals to premature failure.

Ford was so embarrassed by the DNF, he pulled out of factory-sponsored racing as a result.

I believe it wasn't until Henry II did they get back into it. I could be wrong on this.

Lawrie 04-18-2019 05:22 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

I think there is a car in the museum at indianoplis.
I would have to look back at my pics to be sure.
Lawrie

Flathead Fever 04-18-2019 05:26 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

Those were the ultimate vintage Ford race cars even if they did fail miserably. I have some original magazines with articles on those cars I'll dig them out. I think I know where they are at? I have hundreds or more dry lakes photos I've borrowed or bought. I have photos of one of the Miller Indy cars at Muroc. I have so much of this stuff its getting hard too remember whose collection it was in that I copied and where I filed it?

One of those cars was sold to the son of the man that owned most of the radio stations in CA, Don Lee. That was probably around 1940. The hill that the Hollywood sign is on is named "Mt. Lee", because he had his broadcasting antennas up there. He probably owned the entire hill. Its still named Mt. Lee but you never here it mentioned.

His kid which more of an adult had a large collection of real exotic foreign cars. He had one of these '35 Indy cars in his collection. He showed up at the dry lakes in those cars as a spectator. Cars were band from competing unless they had American made engines. Overhead cam engines were banned too because it was suppose to be for amateur racing. I have a late 1940s parts price list for Offenhauser engines. A complete engine was something like $20,000.00 in today's dollars. So when you here the story of how a little V860 Edelbrock built flathead, in a Midget, beat a Midget with an Offenhauser engine, that was a big deal. Even if the V860 was inhaling nitro.

If this was your daddy (below) in 1940 you would have been driving around town in a 1935 Indy Car, or one of a dozen other highest priced sports cars in the world. In later year's he was in a traffic accident and suffered from excruciating back pain for years. I can relate to him after two failed surgeries. He went to the top of one of his dad's buildings and jumped off.

Don Lee

Having amassed a fortune selling automobiles, Lee branched out in broadcasting in 1926 when he purchased KFRC in San Francisco and relocated the station to the top floor of his Cadillac dealership at 1000 Van Ness Ave. In 1927 he purchased KHJ in Los Angeles.[2] By mid-September 1932, Lee also had full control of KDB, Santa Barbara, and KGB, San Diego.[3]
From 1929 to 1936, the 12-station Don Lee Network was affiliated with Columbia Broadcasting System. This venture was known as the Don Lee-Columbia Network. However, in 1936, CBS purchased KNX, along with some other West Coast stations. It also forged some new West Coast network alliances. This led to the Don Lee Network, now run by son Tommy Lee, to end its affiliation with CBS. Instead, on December 30, 1936, it became an affiliate of the Mutual Network. The two networks were known in newspaper ads as Don Lee-Mutual. Don Lee programs were offered to affiliates when Mutual had vacant time slots. The Don Lee Network was sold to ABC Radio on April 26, 1959. Programs became part of ABC.[4]
In 1931 Lee was granted a license to begin experimental television broadcasts with station W6XAO in Los Angeles.[5] The station later became KTSL, KNXT and is currently KCBS-TV. The ridge above the Hollywood sign, where Lee established his transmitter, is still known as "Mount Lee".

Ian NZ 04-18-2019 05:45 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

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There is a 1933 Ford V8 raced by Fred Frame in a museum somewhere in U.S. There is a bit of a controversy about the engine on it to what carburetors it was running as their was no photos of the original engine I wonder what carburettors and how many of them is on that 1933 Ford V8 in that Museum.

5851a 04-18-2019 05:49 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

https://www.thehenryford.org/collect...lide=gs-214496

VeryTangled 04-18-2019 07:49 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

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While visiting the link to The Henry Ford... Be sure to click the ribbon of photos. Here's a nice one. Of course, stolen from their website.

I found an article in the March-April 1985 V-8 Times about them. If anyone hasn't purchased their flash drive with 50 years of magazines and a way to search for indexed articles, you need to do it. https://shop.efv8.org/collections/me...es-flash-drive

Ol' Ron 04-18-2019 08:55 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

I understand the front wheel drive was designed and built by Novi, which later built the Novi V8 which developed 500 hp and Granateli ran befor the turbine. I think the Novi engine was designed by Windfield.. alot of history here, wish we knew more.
Thanks for the birthday gratings, as the Rabi said, 'won't be long now.'

Flathead Fever 04-18-2019 09:17 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

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I looked in my literature piles and boxes and I can't find it. It is in the 1935 4th addition Racing Book by Kuns. It shows up on eBay every once in awhile. I did find one of the issues before it (Ford Roadster Racing) and the two issues after it. There is a nice article in those Miller Fords in that '35 issue. I had an entire extra bedroom room full of metal shelving around the walls and isles of them full of this stuff, all pretty well organized. The wife wanted it out of the house because of a wedding reception we were having here. I had just added onto the garage and I built a 8'X20' room upstairs for just my Ford literature and photos. I had either back surgery or shoulder surgery that week and wasn't allowed to lift anything. I still had drain tubes hanging out of me. So one night my wife and daughter took all that stuff out of the house and upstairs in the garage. I have never been able find anything since.

This is what it looks like.

I have a lot of info on those Mines Field, Elgin and Oakland Ford roadsters that raced. Some original photos, original newspaper articles A copy of the tear down measurements on one of the winning roadsters. Everything had to be 100% stock. They tore the engines, trans and rear ends apart. They give you cam load readings, jet sizes everything you can think of to make sure no cheating was going on. Even have one of the front page Newspapers that hung in every Ford Dealer. "Frame Wins Elgin Road Race". Those roadsters were so successful that was what inspired those '35 Ford/Miller Indy cars. After there steering failed there was no more factory sponsored racing. You will not find anything after 1935. Then you start getting into the Fords setting the dry lakes racing records.

Flathead Fever 04-18-2019 09:25 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron (Post 1748409)
I understand the front wheel drive was designed and built by Novi, which later built the Novi V8 which developed 500 hp and Granateli ran befor the turbine. I think the Novi engine was designed by Windfield.. alot of history here, wish we knew more.
Thanks for the birthday gratings, as the Rabi said, 'won't be long now.'

I was sort of friends with Kong Jackson. I drove down there a few times and spent the day listening to his stories. I'd ask him a question and his hearing was so bad he would tell me a completely different story. Which was good, I learned things I would not have found out otherwise. Kong was best friends with Ed Winfield, he worshiped Ed. That's all he wanted to talk about. Anybody that knew him will tell you how brilliant the guy was. Ed's brother, which I believe was named Bud seems to have had more to do with the Novi than Ed did. You will see photos of Bud with the Novi engines and cars but never Ed? There is only a handful of Ed Winfield photos. He was a pretty stealthy and secretive guy.

Flathead Fever 04-18-2019 09:36 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeryTangled (Post 1748388)
While visiting the link to The Henry Ford... Be sure to click the ribbon of photos. Here's a nice one. Of course, stolen from their website.

I found an article in the March-April 1985 V-8 Times about them. If anyone hasn't purchased their flash drive with 50 years of magazines and a way to search for indexed articles, you need to do it. https://shop.efv8.org/collections/me...es-flash-drive

That photo of the engine shows that four-carb intake in 1935. I never understood why the four-carb or even a three-carb intake did not come along until after the War. Even on the fastest dry lakes cars? It took all those year's for the technology to catch up with that 1935 Indy intake.

VeryTangled 04-18-2019 11:10 PM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

From the V-8 Times article (which is a reprint from Puget Sounds, the V-8 Regional Group newsletter).

"Five of the cars had two Ford dual-throat carburetors and the other five had four single-throat Miller carbs mounted on a special manifold." It's really a pretty good article. It also says the fastest of the four to race, qualified at 113.432 against the pole which was 120.736.

48-710 04-19-2019 06:06 AM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

Looking at the front wheel drive set up with hydraulic brakes.Anybody what brand they would have been?.

Dave/Green Bay 04-19-2019 10:02 AM

Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?
 

There is an annual event at Milwaukee called "Millers at Milwaukee" where these and several other cars run on the track. The owners are very good about opening hoods and talking about their cars.

http://harrymillerclub.com/


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