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-   -   I could not sit idle, have a new project (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79576)

RockHillWill 08-12-2012 09:40 AM

Progress on the Model A speedster
 

7 Attachment(s)
After completeing the Model a restoration, my wife said I could not retire and not have a project of some sort. She was right, and this is what I have started now.

I have seen some very nice examples of metal shaping, and this will be my first attempt at a 'real' project in that regard. It is going to be able to fit on a stock Model A frame with no welding. It is the plan to learn to gas weld aluminum (Henrob ?) and polish the body, with the current idea of using copper rivets to fasten the aluminum panels to the steel substructure.

I wanted to build a speedster, but the width of a standard Model A was not appealing, so I made some layouts in SolidWorks and this is what I am going to start with. It was a little hard to get the dimensions so that both driver and passenger would fit in the standard wheel base, but this is what I have come up with.

I had to do some additional work to get the driver to be able to steer from the center of the chassis, so I devised the double rows of RC40 chain to offset the steering shafts. I have adjusted the sprockets so that the chain links are 'half-lapped' with each other, and there seems to be NO discernable backlash in this design.

The modifications to the steering and the pedal arraingements are preliminary designs, as it is my intention to attempt to build an aluminum body, not so much an entire car. At this juncture, I plan to use 3003H14 for the skin, a Henrob torch (I have a gas setup as well). I have not decided on the filler metal rod at this point in time. I want to use semi-tubular rivits to attach the body to the sub structure.

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blgitn 08-12-2012 10:26 AM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

That's a cool project; kind of like a fighter plane! It will be fun watching as you progress. Thanks!

R/ Roger.

Jim Parker Toronto 08-12-2012 12:57 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Wow, very interesting concept! Good luck and keep us informed please.

BRENT in 10-uh-C 08-12-2012 01:21 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Bring it with you when we all go to Huntsville so we can help make scrap metal with you!! http://www.model-a-ford.com/ROFL.gif

.

flexiheep 08-12-2012 09:18 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Cool looking project, I been working on a speedster design in my head for years, neat to see the two person seating. Keep us updated, or let us know where the updates are.

My newest mental plan is working out a 4 seat speedster so the 2 kids can go along too.....

2manycars 08-13-2012 05:52 AM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

How about one of these for your offset steering?
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Steer-...nish,6254.html

RockHillWill 08-13-2012 06:32 AM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

2Many: At $700, that is why I didn't use that device. So far, I have $26 in the setup shown. Wife seems to be tracking the costs on this project for some reason. I got away with it on the Panel Delivery, LOL

Vince: LMAO!

flexiheep 08-13-2012 09:00 AM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordgarage (Post 478484)
They call it a Phaeton! :eek: :D


But...but.....but that would be easy and make sense....... :D

RockHillWill 08-13-2012 02:06 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Hey, 'Flexi' I too thought of several ways to do what you described, and that was what was so funny to me. I was thinking of different ways to make a four seat speedster as well, so when Vince said 'Phaeton', I fell on my butt laughing at how easy it was for me to veer off with my imagination.

If you proceed to build something like that, I will be happy to help or share experiences with you.

Jim Huseby 08-13-2012 05:30 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

There was a favorite book of mine and my children in the middle 70's called "Cars and Trucks and Thing that Go" by Richard Scary. He had a tasteful and unbridled imagination for fantasy cars and classic cars. One of them was the tandem "two-seater pencil car". I need to find that book again and possibly adopt (steal) one or two his ideas. www.olympic-speedsters.com

1931 flamingo 08-13-2012 05:39 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

I remember reading richard scary's books to both kids.
Paul in CT

RockHillWill 08-13-2012 06:53 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Jim, thanks for the link. I had seen it before, but had lost the 'address'.

Thank you!

flexiheep 08-13-2012 09:17 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo (Post 478835)
I remember reading richard scary's books to both kids.
Paul in CT


I can probably date myself by saying I spent hours as a kids with his books, and now am reading them to my kids..... Definitely an imagination to come up with all that he did.

flexiheep 08-13-2012 09:23 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHillWill (Post 478740)
Hey, 'Flexi' I too thought of several ways to do what you described, and that was what was so funny to me. I was thinking of different ways to make a four seat speedster as well, so when Vince said 'Phaeton', I fell on my butt laughing at how easy it was for me to veer off with my imagination.

If you proceed to build something like that, I will be happy to help or share experiences with you.


I'll keep you in mind when I start working on it, sadly I have to finish up a Jeep project and then repair my coupe after it was hit by a drunk driver and put on it's side. Will be a while until I get to the Speedster project. I am thinking more of a boat tail look, almost a 30's indy car type thing over a Phaeton. But we shall see what happens in the future.

RockHillWill 08-14-2012 06:21 AM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

2 Attachment(s)
I have made a prelimanary layout for the wooden buck to make the grille shell.

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Wick 08-14-2012 06:42 AM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Will,nice work..some real good ideas I see. Look forward to seeing you at Hershey in 8 weeks and hear more about your Speedster.
Wick

Hunter 08-14-2012 10:14 AM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Hi Will,

I think you should change your name from RockHillWill to RockHillOverAchiever!! You never cease to maze me - Hunter :)

RockHillWill 08-14-2012 08:49 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

1 Attachment(s)
Hey Hunter:

I don't feel like an over achiever, only that I get bored quickly, LOL.

Here is the finished nose buck. I sent .dxf files to the waterjet guy today.

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Jack '29 Sport Coupe 08-15-2012 08:36 AM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

In your first sentence you indicated that your wife stated that you needed a project. What I want to know is where in the heck did you find her!!!! I want a wife like that.
Most wives that I know would hand you a "honey do" list and THAT would be your new project. She's a keeper! :)

Jack

RockHillWill 08-15-2012 10:08 AM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new Speedster project
 

I think it works like this, here at my house.

The first thing on the wife's honey do list is 'stay out of the house', LOL

Anything else around the house she will let me do in the order that I want.

Truth be known, I have a terrific wife. She is my best friend, will help in the shop if I need her. She does most of the sandblasting around here and some of the painting as well as some diss-assembly work and the sorting of bolts and hardware.

If I am short a few bucks, she will even 'kick in' on occassion, and has always been my greatest supporter and puts up with all my 'lists' and 'proceedure sheets', etc. We need to work on her sense of humor a little, though, LOL

Ray in La Mesa 08-15-2012 11:06 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

I've got a great Model A wife too!! We met in the local club. She still has her first car, a "31 coupe, bought with baby sitting money in high school. I'm the "fleet' mechanic for her two A's and my two A's plus "her" '68 Roadrunner, my '70 VW van. I help her with her other hobbies and she helps me with mine, when we're not doing "A" stuff together. LIFE IS GREAT!

RockHillWill 08-16-2012 08:46 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

2 Attachment(s)
Just a minor update.

I have finished the layout for the buck to make the rear deck for this thing. Drawings will go to the water jet guy in the morning, I hope.

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RockHillWill 08-22-2012 06:18 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

5 Attachment(s)
Here is a few pics of current progress.
I am trying to bet some of the work done on this project before Ethan goes back to school. I try to work most of the day, as I got way behind with the Panel project, but late in the afternoon, we have been working on the speedster.

We have the steel vertical water jetted pieces installed and today we welded up the removeable horizontal supports.

The wood came back from the water jet guy this afternoon and we got the front radiator shroud buck assembled. It took both of us a total of 4 minutes to screw the pieces together. I love that water jet! The wood was .573 to .577" thick and I made the intersecting slots at .580" wide. They all slid together, and were screwed in place with no glue required, and it is removeable for changes if needed.

The rear tail section lower metal form needs to be changed to more closely match the shape of the wooden buck. It's contour was developed from the SolidWorks program, and I did a poor job of estimating the contour.

At this point, I expect to make all the panels below the horizontal supports to be bolted to the frame structure and most of the panels above the horizontal supports will be removeable with 'Dzus' fasteners that I had left over from working at Indy a number of years ago. I should have enough for this project.

This design is admittedly quite simple, but it is my first attempt at an entire project that is from scratch, as opposed to doing repair and restoration work that I have been accustomed to. I have not worked with aluminum body panels before and that is the primary reason for this first effort.


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Bick in New Zealand 08-22-2012 06:25 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Will, I am not familiar with 'water jetting' is it some sort of cutting device?

RockHillWill 08-22-2012 06:43 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Good evening Bick.

It is like a tracer torch or an fast oxy-acetylene torch.

It is a VERY high pressure water flow thu a small nozzle and is accompanied by fine grains of sand and / or other material / abrasive. The thing that I like the most about it is the fact that it has a very narrow 'curf' angle that can result a very small differance in tolerance from the top of a part to the bottom. It is not so important for sheet metal parts, but for thicker parts this can be quite an advantage.

The convenient thing for me is that I really like to make drawings and once a drawing is made in a CAD type program, the drawing can be saved as a .dxf (or similar) file extension and emailed to the water jet 'guy' and he can put that file directly into the water jet software program, and it will 'spit out' a part very quickly.

The water jet can cut out many different types of material with VERY close accuracy, and there is MINIMAL rework or modifications to do once the part has been cut. I was able to get the holes for the wood screws water jetted in place, c so that all we had to do was countersink for the wood screw and fasten them in place.

JeffM 08-22-2012 07:19 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Wow, great project. Im keen to do an A Speedster someday, and your "inline" style is a different approach. I like it, and look forward to watching your build.
Ive also been keen on the water jet for making parts, but not sure if anyone down here has one. Ive seen them on some of those silly car and bike building shows, with impressive results.

RockHillWill 08-25-2012 12:13 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

7 Attachment(s)
We got the rear buck pieces together and used the base of it to fit the rear frame structure components. We could form the bottom 'rails' around the outer edge of the wood because the aluminum panel with have a step/character line when it gets to that point, but the upper structure will have to match the contour of the wood, so it was fitted below the wood panel so that it will have the same shape.

This buck was a little more involved with the offset joints, so it took longer to assemble than the front. This rear buck took Ethan and I a little more than 20 minutes to assemble, including the wood screws. These pieces fit so closely that glue is not needed. The tapering of the edges, etc, is going to take some additional time to do. I can see that coming.

This is my first attempt at building bucks, (other than the Model A fenderwell) so am still learning 'stuff'. The lateral metal supports hold the contours untill the panels are in place.

The aluminum 'firewall' was also cut on the waterjet. We added a 'joggle' around the perimeter and cut the hole for the steering column and used the Rotex punch to put holes around the edges.

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takomaned 08-25-2012 12:35 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

I got home from work yesterday and found a note on the fridge from my wife. She wrote "This is not working. I'll be staying at my Mom"s." I opened the door and the light came on. The beer was cold. I'm not sure what she's talking about. Anybody have any ideas?

Kohnke Rebabbitting 08-25-2012 02:28 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by takomaned (Post 486005)
I got home from work yesterday and found a note on the fridge from my wife. She wrote "This is not working. I'll be staying at my Mom"s." I opened the door and the light came on. The beer was cold. I'm not sure what she's talking about. Anybody have any ideas?

Check your instruction Book that came with Her!

James Rogers 08-25-2012 05:51 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Will, I went and did some bench racing with a fellow you might know from days gone by. I stopped in at Precision Performance Products Company (PPPC) in Arden,NC just up from Banjo's old shop. Figure it out? Leo Jackson. Nice guy, just like all the NASCAR people I have ever met.

RockHillWill 08-25-2012 06:42 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Leo and his brother Richard always had nice 'stuff', fast motors and clean equipment. I bought things from them on occassion. My memories are that they were both great guys.

RockHillWill 08-26-2012 06:19 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

6 Attachment(s)
Weekend work on speedster went well. The wife and a friend from Charlotte came down and we spent some time in the shop working on the firewall and the headlight buckets.

The headlights and assorted exterior items are scheduled to be copper plated. Currently looking for period tail lights that will be stand alone mounted at rear of frame rails. Probably will make the grill front guard copper plated as well.

Firewall was cut at the water jet guys place, pe-fit to the firewall bulkhead, beads were run with Stan Fulton made dies and installed with the help of the talented wife, with #10 cad plated carriage type bolts that look like rivets. Rivets were scuttled when I realized how many times I may have to remove to re-fit the panels.


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msmaron 08-26-2012 07:07 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

totally fascinating

RockHillWill 09-19-2012 06:19 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

6 Attachment(s)
I have just gotten the wood pieces for the gas tank buck back from the waterjet guy and have started on building the gas tank. It will be made from .100 #3003H14 aluminum. Probably welded with #1100 filler rod.

This buck is much simpler than the other two that I just finished for the nose and the tail. I am making the tank in two external pieces and four internal pieces (baffles). The outside will be made of the front, bottom and rear in one "U" shaped piece and the LS, top and RS piece also in a "U" shape, but turned 90 degrees to the other. I have radiused the edges of the buck at the welding 'seam' so that the seam joints will be butt welded rather that corner welded.

The inside has inter-locking baffles with pass-thru holes at the bottom for levelizing the gas content. The filler nozzle and the gas gauge will go in the center forward 'cubicle', and the gas will exit the tank at the right front corner thru a large OD aluminum welding bung with 3/8" NPT threads.

The tank is mounted at the rear of the car just under the rear body panel, and the gas will be gravity fed just like the original Model A setup, with the fuel line going to the front firewall, then to the sediment bowl and then to the two updraft carburetors.


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RockHillWill 09-29-2012 03:45 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

7 Attachment(s)
Been away at a metal shaping gathering and got some work done on the aluminum body work. These are some picture of the progress on the upper tail section panel. It still needs to be welded together and then have the finish work done. Been busy getting ready for Hershey

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RockHillWill 09-29-2012 04:00 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Additional pics of work done on nose buck panels.

OOPS!, forgot to attach pictures,

RockHillWill 09-29-2012 04:02 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Here are pics on nose panels.

RockHillWill 09-29-2012 04:06 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

7 Attachment(s)
Maybe, this time.

First picture is of an Eckhold Piccolo machine that was used to 'tip' shrink the corners inward onto themselves.

No slip rolls were available, so I inserted a go-cart tire into the upper holder of a smaller english wheel and rolled the sides and corners with it, then smoothed the curves in a larger, more rigid english wheel.

As with the rear body panels, the parts still have to be welded together and metal finished.

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Pickupman 09-29-2012 04:28 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Looking Good Will!

Bick in New Zealand 09-29-2012 11:46 PM

Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project
 

Fantastic work Will, keep'm coming, it is great to see the progress you are making.


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