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-   -   #1 cylinder not doing it's share (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272125)

thom 11-03-2019 09:20 PM

#1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

1 Attachment(s)
I drove our '21 Touring, with it's fresh engine, having 40 hours max on it, about a mile to the local store and when I cranked it to start home it was running on three cylinders. Shorting out the plugs, one at a time revealed that # 1 was the problem. The spark however, was strong on all four. After removing the front side cover I can see that the #1 exhaust valve is not closing. At first I was prepared to remove the head and replace the valve, spring, and keeper(s). But I suppose I will try to get some lube into the plug hole to the valve stem and try to free it up. I hope the valve seat is still in place. There was no noise when the problem began and now when the engine runs on three cylinders, so maybe the seat is intact.:(

redmodelt 11-03-2019 10:03 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

You should be able to see thru the spark plug hole if it is.

J Franklin 11-04-2019 12:01 AM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Can you get it to move with a lever between the valve foot and tappet. It just might free up. If it does add some Marvel Mystery Oil to the gas to keep it free. Do you know for certain there are added seats?

thom 11-04-2019 08:07 AM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

I put something between the lifter and the valve and it will move a little in both directions so it is not stuck tight, tight. I will put some lube in the valve stem and try freeing it up before I remove the head. I have made arrangements to take the car and have the top installed soon so I need to get it going again.

thom 11-05-2019 02:33 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

1 Attachment(s)
Here's the problem. I've already ordered a new valve from Lang's.

J Franklin 11-05-2019 04:37 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Do you have any idea what caused that to happen?

rotorwrench 11-05-2019 06:21 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

What happened to the other piece? The old two piece valves were not the best design. The holes for the assembly process can be a potential problem with cracking and the cast heads can get brittle with time.

This thread has some info from the model T forum.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1518310515

daren007 11-05-2019 06:41 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Fresh engine? I would have a talk with your mechanic.

thom 11-05-2019 08:17 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

I cannot talk to the rebuilder. I bought the car about three years ago. It came from middle Tennessee and the engine , I'm told, was rebuilt by someone in the Knoxville area, probably several years before I got the car. The engine had never been started when I got it. The head had not been "torqued" down so I removed it and looked at the pistons and valves. The pistons were obviously new oversized, and the valves appeared to be new, possibly NOS Ford. I removed the inspection cover on the oil pan and everything in the lower end was new too. The engine has ran great thus far. I will see how the new valve fits when it arrives and may order seven more to replace them all.

dumb person 11-05-2019 11:23 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Yeah, i figured it'd be something like that. Mine did that, but it was spitting valve seat out the exhaust.

thom 11-06-2019 09:55 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Looks like I'll be replacing all the valves with new ones and I will be grinding the stems to fit, although I have adjustable lifters. I wonder if I can get a new stone for my bench grinder that will do the job? The new valves will be stainless.

rotorwrench 11-07-2019 09:54 AM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Most of the old valve grinders from the 1960s & prior have a set up on one end to face the stems. At least that way the facing is concentric and relatively accurate. I'd hesitate to grind stems with out some sort of similar fixture and a fine grinder wheel for a nice finish. Having a good way to true up the grinding wheel now and then is also a good idea. A person could rigg up a grinding set up if they have the means. Even a bench top disc sander could be utilized with some ingenuity. You certainly don't want to take off too much unless you have a valve seat grinder.

39portlander 11-07-2019 07:29 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Something helpful, Glen Chaffin had a response on the MTFCA forum several years ago and can be looked up for reference about proper procedure of valve adjustment. Setting valve clearance, a simple procedure I believe it was september 2007. Timing valves by piston travel is a waste of time and causes other problems as stated in Glens procedure.

Also check out Mike Benders video's model T-tips he has a good one on valves and adjustable lifters ect. Let us know how you make out.

Neway manufacturing offers 60, 45 and 30 seat resurface tools I used for my block, no inserts. I have several Sioux valve grinders and able to fit my new valves to my adjustable lifters. A magnetic base and dial gauge is helpful when setting lash.

chuck stevens 11-08-2019 08:51 AM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Thom, Before you buy the new valves check the size of the stems. Tee' s will wear the valve guides, (the block), and you will have to use larger stems, good luck, Chuck.

39portlander 11-08-2019 06:46 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck stevens (Post 1819017)
Thom, Before you buy the new valves check the size of the stems. Tee' s will wear the valve guides, (the block), and you will have to use larger stems, good luck, Chuck.

That is a great point Chuck, standard size is .312 I think the allowable wear is 6-8 thou, 1/64 (.015) oversize and then 1/32 (.030) oversize. A small bore gauge works great for checking this and if needed oversize reamers for installing the oversize stems.

fordwife 11-09-2019 12:21 AM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

I do not have access to afore mentioned article about adjusting valves by piston travel. I have been doing it for years as per MTFOA bookwith good results. Why is no longer recommended?

39portlander 11-09-2019 06:35 AM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordwife (Post 1819302)
I do not have access to afore mentioned article about adjusting valves by piston travel. I have been doing it for years as per MTFOA bookwith good results. Why is no longer recommended?

So you are able to post here on the Fordbarn but cannot access a topic related to model T valves that is also on the internet:confused:

Hey what ever works for You keep doing it, enjoy your weekend and Happy Veterans Day monday for those of us that have served OOHRah! and Happy Birthday sunday USMC.

rotorwrench 11-09-2019 10:09 AM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

This is a link to Mike Bender's videos. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz9...-WMvuRQ/videos

This is a link to Glen's valve adjustement procedure or at least one procedure.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1314751773

This is a link to discussion about setting valves by piston travel.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1478454120

thom 11-09-2019 09:24 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

The one valve that I ordered finally came. It fits the stem fine. I think the adjustable lifter will take up enough so I won't have to grind the stem. If not I will take all the new valves , when I get them, to the machine shop and have a few thou taken off.

redmodelt 11-10-2019 04:17 PM

Re: #1 cylinder not doing it's share
 

The net gain doing the valve gaps by piston travel is small and can end up with large gaps (could be as high as .035 and up) for nosier valve train. Piston travel was used with worn cam lobes and lifters that had cups worn in them where you could not set gap with feeler gauges and block that never was surfaced.


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