The Ford Barn - Wheel studs

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Folks,
I have to replace a few wheel studs on my 39 Coupe, wheels are 5 x 5-1/2. I’ve done a search on here and found several posts on this issue. I was able to remove the old studs with a 5/8 hole saw with no problems. I used a NAPA stud # 641-1617 as was suggested in another post, with a serrated dia of .568” I press fit it in the hub/drum with no issues. The issue I have was when I re-installed the steel wheel. The stud shoulder length was too long and prevented the wheel nuts from tightening on the wheel. I have ordered 2 of the Dorman 610-085 that has a serrated dia of .641”. I have a 5/8 drill bit which is .625”, but I need to know how much larger I have to make the hole to get a good bite with the stud, so as not to crack the drum.
Thanks
Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoovel (Post 2035387)

Hey Tom ......I've never done what you're attempting on an old Ford drum, although I've replaced plenty of studs over the years. I believe you're wise in taking care not to crack the drum.

0.641 is very close to 5/8" (0.625") PLUS 1/64" (0.015625") = 0.640625", or equivalent to a 41/64" drill bit. That is only 0.000375" SMALLER (that's way less than one of those blond hairs that we hear about) than your 0.641 stud.

What I'm contemplating here is drilling all the way through the hub flange PLUS the drum with the 5/8" bit. Even at that, the knurled splines on the studs will only interfere with the hub by a total of 0.016", or 0.008" into EACH side of the freshly-drilled hole in the hub.

Then, before you press the stud in, drill only the drum surface using a 41/64" drill bit. Just the process of drilling with the 41/64" bit will leave essentially ZERO clearance for the stud splines to interfere with.

That 0.641" spline pressing into a 0.0625" (5/8") hole may still leave you needing to tack-weld the stud from the rear to keep it from spinning when tightening/loosening.......FWIW! DD

......

Somewhere I have a PDF of the Dorman catalog that lists all of the specs of their studs. It helped me find the correct stud for the job.

I think I got smart and wrote down the part number for the ones I used. I'll check when I get back to shop.

Do you have new nuts? original nuts have a few threads missing on the bottom to clear the shoulder of the stud. New nuts are threaded all the way to the end. A couple seconds on the drill press will fix this

Quote:

Originally Posted by cas3 (Post 2035545)

Slick, easy fix there, cas! DD

As Tim Ayers suggests, I recommend that you find the Dorman Hardware catalog online and search through the extensive listing of wheel studs. I suggest you try to find one with a knurl diameter smaller than 0.641. You should be able to find studs with close to the right knurl and shoulder lengths and diameters to work with your specific hub and drum. If either the knurl or shoulder is too long, they can be easily shortened in a lathe. Some early hubs may also require that you "clip" the heads. The attached photos show how a stud had to be modified for a perfect fit, but this was not for a 39.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cas3 (Post 2035545)

Thanks guys.
I thought about drilling a few threads out, but the stud shank dia is .543.
I purchased a “bulge” nut from Ford that has a few threads missing from the nut, but not quite enough. I went thru the Dorman catalog online, but 1/2 x 20 is harder to find.
The Dorman stud 610-085 shows in the catalog as having a knurled end dia of .641. I bought 2 and measured them and the knurled end is only .622.
Still looking.

.

Well, I just learned a little something. "ARP" wheel stud folks say:

"For steel and cast iron hubs, the hole should be 0.006-0.016˝ smaller than the Knurl Diameter."

The "knurl diameter" is measured on the outside of the knurled splines.

SOME wheel studs have an underhead radius. Each hole must be chamfered 0.025˝ to clear the underhead radius and prevent stud failure.

Just sayin'! DD

https://www.dormanproducts.com/hsubs...l%20Lug%20Stud

Start here. I'll look for the part #'s that I used. All worked perfectly. I did use original Ford lug nuts.

Shoovell, You have discovered (as I did) that the dimensions in the Dorman catalog are sometimes not accurate. Ordering one at a time is a good strategy. I collected quite a few single studs before settling on ones that would work for my application.
Regarding your original question about the amount of interference between the OD of the knurl and the hub hole diameter. In searching for studs, I used 0.020" as a maximum interference and 0.010" as a bare minimum.

The specs must "move around" or my '83-84 Dorman catalog has a misprint for 610-085........ shows the knurl is 0.650"
Anyway, the attached jpgs are the current listings for all of their 1/2-20 studs.
Hopefully readable.

I replaced some studs and found the serrations were too long. I flattened some lock washers and used them for spacers. It has worked fine for a long time.

Here are the ones I used:

Fronts: '42-'48 hubs with the drums on the inside of the hub: Dorman 610-234
Rears: '40 hubs with drum on the outside: Wagner BD 61213

Regarding those charts, what is meant by 'clip head?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian (Post 2035899)

Regarding those charts, what is meant by 'clip head?

A clipped head is one that has a flat spot like for a '40 hub. I just made mine "clipped" heads by machining a flat into it.

Pict is found in this link.

https://www.dormanproducts.com/hsubs...r%20Metric=SAE

Just a note; cast drums Will crack! be very careful. Newc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newc (Post 2035967)

Just a note; cast drums Will crack! be very careful. Newc

OEM Ford drums have a stamped steel center that is welded to a cast iron "rim".

I agree they can get damaged, warped or cracked if not support and the removed and installation of studs is not done carefully.

That's why the are significantly lighter than the cast steel ones from Boiling Bros.

FYI,
One can also machine the stud knurled side to make it fit the hub and drum.
-I've done this on a drill press when without a lathe.-
The knurl length can be cut down, so that the lug nut can go farther.
I've done this after pressing new studs in, so I don't have too much material
to swage (rivet)
If you're replacing all 5, I run a flat file on the mating surface of the hub, as
the swaging of the original install will distort the surface on the hub.

-I've done this a lot.

Karl

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.

Just a note drills will drill oversized.