Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

I just rolled over 2,000 miles on a newly rebuilt engine by Richard Fallucca of AER. Have had some problems blowing head gaskets with my Snyder's 6.0 head so I had it milled and installed the third gasket. I was gently breaking everything back in and was travelling at 45 MPH closed to home when the engine simply died. I could tell by the lack of compression when I engaged the starter I had blown a third gasket.

As you can imagine, I was quite shocked to pull the head and find the gasket in perfect order. Chocking it up to a rookie mistake, ( 2 year Model A owner) I reinstalled the head and set about getting it running.

The problem became evident as the timing gear was not turning when we tried to locate TDC. We pulled the timing side cover and everything looked good. It was clear the timing gear was not moving, but the crank gear was. After getting the timing gear to move slightly with a screwdriver, the gear engaged and rotated to reveal what you see in the images.

Would love to hear ideas on how the timing gear stopped dead, allowing the crank gear to shear the teeth right off. Once I got the teeth to engage, the timing gear spun freely so there isn't anything restricting it's movement.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

I've never seen that color or material before for a timing gear.
I'd try a metal gear and make sure the mesh is correct.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Agreed on the color - although color for digital cameras is at best hit or miss.

More importantly - I thought all the "macerated" fiber gears were pretty much now out of the supply system? It's certainly not a laid up gear (which is the preferred if one wants a fiber gear.)

And would not seem to be the "insert" fiber gear which some have had problems with the insert coming loose.

What are you running for a cam?

Joe K

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

got to love those fiber gears . When Snyders started selling metal timing gears, thats all that I have used since.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Incorrect meshing of the gears, (oversized timing gear where one was not needed) could cause the problem. I assume you asked Richard Fallucca of AER about this as well?

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

What concern did you purchase this gear from? When you replaced the cam gear, did you also change the gear on the crank? I also have never seen this color of a camshaft gear.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

So sad to see this happen to you with a recent rebuild.

Did you or did the rebuilder provide this timing gear?

Appears like somebody poured Strawberry Kool-Aid in your oil pan ... like above, never saw "any" timing gear that color ..... saw a few timing gear teeth broken off but never saw a timing gear get eaten up like this ..... looks like a crocodile is in your oil pan ... maybe the rebuilder can shed some light.

Something is definitely not right .. but what?

Appears this could possibly be more complicated than one could imagine, especially if the line boring of the crank shaft was provided slightly askew and/or off center & not exactly parallel to the cam shaft thus causing the crankshaft teeth to grind the timing gear teeth.

Please try to investigate a little prior to just replacing a timing gear.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

"Would love to hear ideas on how the timing gear stopped dead, allowing the crank gear to shear the teeth right off."
It's the other way around.

It may have come up before that it is only a matter of time before you will lose the teeth on a fiber gear. Lots of possible reasons.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ght=fiber+gear

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Does that gear look "dry" to the rest of you?

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Just accept the fact fiber gears break! You said the cam turns free. Although, you didn't say what the cam profile is, it would have to be fairly radical to influence breakage, so the obvious answer is a crappy or defective fiber gear.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Just had mine shred too. Will use aluminum in the future,
See attached ad, Bratton's says there are a lot of weak gears being sold!
http://www.brattons.com/product.asp?...istory=related

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Worked on lots of A engines. Never seen that color gear. I would use a metal gear. In fact that is the only kind I will use on my engines. They will not be noise if you have the mains bored in the right place.

I think you need to pull the pan and clean all gear pieces out of there.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Your initial diagnosis, repair, and re-diagnosis mirrors what I did this summer. I have a metal gear coming for Christmas.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Good morning everyone. No worries on the color of the gear. It's the standard tan fiber gear color, but the incandescent lighting I was using to get a good picture obviously made the gear look red.

I've included the link to AER below. I have the rebuilt long-block with insert bearings and I added the touring package which are the bullets listed below. The timing gear was provided and installed by Richard.

Dad and I just discovered this last night so I wont be able to discuss with Richard until Monday. My current plan is to pull the engine and make a trip to Skokie unless Richard can put me at ease with a dependable fix.

I must add Richard has been very helpful with my blown head gaskets and probable causes, thus the recent milling of my warped head.

http://antiqueenginerebuilding.com/Ahwy.html

• Model A counterbalanced engine with clutch and lightened flywheel.
• Touring Grind Camshaft
• Insert Main Bearings
• NEW Insert connecting rods with bearings
• New Hi Compression Head
• Larger Intake Valves 1.730 Head Dia

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

keep us posted on the outcome

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Remember guys that this engine was completely assembled with all parts provided by a reputable rebuilder. AER has an excellent reputation, and this apparently is the gear he uses in all of his rebuilds. There still could be a problem with the engine, none of us are perfect, but I don't think we should assume that Richard has used any bargain parts. Obviously he must still prefer fiber over metal gears in his rebuilds and that is a choice those who use him must accept. It is an interesting situation.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

You mentioned that you milled your 6.0 high compression head.
Did you check to see if the oversize valves show signs of having hit the head ?

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

That's a great question. They only milled .010 so I sure wouldn't think they would hit. Heard AER is now milling all Snyder's 6.0 heads before assembly. Here are pictures of 1 & 2 and 3 & 4 when I pulled the head last week.

Re: Shredded the timing gear...but how?
 

Rich has these timing gears made especially for his engines, as he told me in October when I was fighting a horrible restoration engine repair. It's a matched set of metal crankshaft gear and fiber timing gear that he sells and installs in his engines. Hopefully your situation is an isolated one!
Marshall