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-   -   Indented Firewall (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268292)

rfitzpatrick 08-22-2019 11:59 AM

Indented Firewall
 

What was the purpose of the Indented Firewall? Was this in preparation for the V-8, or what? Think that was introduced May '31-
Thanks

Automotive Stud 08-22-2019 12:03 PM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

It was just a revision to put the fuel valve on the outside of the firewall instead of in the interior.

Purdy Swoft 08-22-2019 12:06 PM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

One or more of the states required that the gas cut off valve be removed from inside the cab . The indented firewall and mods to the gas tank made room to install the valve under the hood .

alexiskai 08-22-2019 12:09 PM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

I've heard it was to conform with certain state fire safety laws, although I've never heard which states or what the laws said.

SteveB31 08-22-2019 11:13 PM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

Pensilvania

Oldbluoval 08-23-2019 05:43 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

I will always yield to Steve!
But a long time ago I recall it was NY

History 08-23-2019 07:19 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveB31 (Post 1790997)
Pensilvania

Pen(sah) or Pen(cil)?

Railcarmover 08-23-2019 08:28 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

A few things were done by 31 to lessen the fire danger.One was moving the steering column support to the dash rail from the tank,on front collisions the driver would be impaled by the steering wheel, often breaking the bracket at the tank.Some died in the resulting fire. Ford was in court a bunch over the cowl tank,even using the tactic of renaming the filler screen to imply it was a fire suppression device.
Its also one of the reasons why no one reproduced the tank..liability.

Nosetime 08-23-2019 08:30 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

If anyone is interested, I have a freshly tested and resealed tank for indented firewall.

alexiskai 08-23-2019 08:56 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

This article by Bob Bidonde argues that, as Railcarmover mentions above, the indented firewall change combined the relocation of the fuel cutoff with the relocation of the steering column support bracket to eliminate both of the potential ways for gasoline to leak into the cabin.

Per the article, "several cities would not license Model A Taxis because of the potential for gasoline leakage inside the car." So perhaps that's the truth behind the "state laws" claim.

http://www.ahooga.com/notebook/howto...t_firewall.pdf

Tudortomnz 08-24-2019 12:18 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Railcarmover (Post 1791076)
A few things were done by 31 to lessen the fire danger.One was moving the steering column support to the dash rail from the tank,on front collisions the driver would be impaled by the steering wheel, often breaking the bracket at the tank.Some died in the resulting fire. Ford was in court a bunch over the cowl tank,even using the tactic of renaming the filler screen to imply it was a fire suppression device.
Its also one of the reasons why no one reproduced the tank..liability.

It was actually done to prevent a leak at the weld joint of the column support as drivers put weight on to the steering wheel when getting in.
Although much is made of fires with the Model A, these were never common. A trick done at Ford Dealers was to light a match over the tank with the gas cap off ; because of the arrester screen, nothing happened.
It is hard to make a car go up in flames because of fuel ; check out old Myth Busters on this. The new bracket was a fix for this & was promoted in the Service Bulletins to fit on earlier cars if the problem occurred. There was even one for RHD & they were available here in NZ.
Regarding being impaled on the steering, in the Model A era this was not worried about, only much later were auto makers forced to improve interior design to lessen injury, but certainly not in the '30's, '40's or '50's.
Cheers.

Jeff P. / MN 08-24-2019 08:23 PM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

1 Attachment(s)
I owned a 1931 S/W 4dr with a “restamped” firewall. Apparently Ford was in a bit of a rush to get this change into production.

Railcarmover 08-25-2019 09:46 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tudortomnz (Post 1791346)
It was actually done to prevent a leak at the weld joint of the column support as drivers put weight on to the steering wheel when getting in.
Although much is made of fires with the Model A, these were never common. A trick done at Ford Dealers was to light a match over the tank with the gas cap off ; because of the arrester screen, nothing happened.
It is hard to make a car go up in flames because of fuel ; check out old Myth Busters on this. The new bracket was a fix for this & was promoted in the Service Bulletins to fit on earlier cars if the problem occurred. There was even one for RHD & they were available here in NZ.
Regarding being impaled on the steering, in the Model A era this was not worried about, only much later were auto makers forced to improve interior design to lessen injury, but certainly not in the '30's, '40's or '50's.
Cheers.

Rigid steering column gets impacted by the driver in a front collision,breaking the mount at the tank,dousing the driver in fuel.You can play with gasoline,I prefer not to.The fix in the service bulletins was probably noted as 'a driver issue getting in and out of the vehicle',Ford,even back then avoided citing direct reasons why they instituted a change.

alexiskai 08-25-2019 10:13 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

There would have been a fire hazard in many of these cars continuously from their owners smoking. You don't need to damage the tank itself – if there's an accident, or if, as Ford claimed, someone had been pulling on the weld point repeatedly, and the gas starts leaking, and someone drops their cigarette (possibly because they've just been T-boned), there goes the ballgame.

Railcarmover 08-25-2019 11:23 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

1 Attachment(s)
everybody smoked back then..

Tudortomnz 08-25-2019 03:09 PM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Railcarmover (Post 1791706)
Rigid steering column gets impacted by the driver in a front collision,breaking the mount at the tank,dousing the driver in fuel.You can play with gasoline,I prefer not to.The fix in the service bulletins was probably noted as 'a driver issue getting in and out of the vehicle',Ford,even back then avoided citing direct reasons why they instituted a change.

Two issues in this thread ; indent firewall so as to have fuel cock outside body interior [ which Ford was probably forced to do by legislation] plus the new steering bracket which was a fix for the old welded bracket which could damage the tank by drivers pulling on the 'wheel when getting in or out. These can be sourced in Ford literature ; other reasons are conjecture.
Ironically, that collision pic. shown between the A & VW was actually in NZ where I am writing this! Cheers

Railcarmover 08-25-2019 05:17 PM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tudortomnz (Post 1791814)
Two issues in this thread ; indent firewall so as to have fuel cock outside body interior [ which Ford was probably forced to do by legislation] plus the new steering bracket which was a fix for the old welded bracket which could damage the tank by drivers pulling on the 'wheel when getting in or out. These can be sourced in Ford literature ; other reasons are conjecture.
Ironically, that collision pic. shown between the A & VW was actually in NZ where I am writing this! Cheers

Too much proof of litigation to be conjecture,Ford was proven to play with words for their actions about the fire issues.The oral histories have multiple recollections of Fords problems with the fire issue.Was some of it a lawyer building his case by sensationalizing the issue? perhaps,but the point stands,Ford was involved in litigation when the changes in '31 were made..Look close at that picture,some kiwi had a sore gut from folding that steering wheel and bending the column..wonder if that 28/29 had a tank mounted bracket..

http://cdm15889.contentdm.oclc.org/c...on/p15889coll2

the oral histories are a fascinating look into the actual lives of the folks who financed designed and built the Ford..

Chuck Sea/Tac 08-25-2019 11:19 PM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff P. / MN (Post 1791582)
I owned a 1931 S/W 4dr with a “restamped” firewall. Apparently Ford was in a bit of a rush to get this change into production.

Not so much a rush, as just using up all the stock, instead of throwing it away after the change was made. This was done for all changes, that’s why the judging standards will have a “ gray” time on when part changes were made to the cars.

Automotive Stud 08-26-2019 10:04 AM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff P. / MN (Post 1791582)
I owned a 1931 S/W 4dr with a “restamped” firewall. Apparently Ford was in a bit of a rush to get this change into production.

That's neat I've never seen that before.

Tudortomnz 08-26-2019 03:24 PM

Re: Indented Firewall
 

Anyone really interested in the development of the indent tank & the column bracket problems should read Steve Pluckers online articles, researched in his studies series on Model A.
His Évolution of 1930-31 tanks part 5 gives us the best knowledge of Fords tank changes & reasons behind them. [ nothing about impaled drivers!] Cheers


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