Question for Canadian barners
 

I bought my '34 Ford in western Canada, (Alberta), in 2005. I didn't get a registration when I bought it- only a bill of sale, (with the serial # on it). The fellow I bought it from said he never had a registration and the owner before him didn't either. Now I am trying to register the car in my name so I can take it for inspection and get a license for it. I am in Quebec and at the lic. bureau here they said I can't put the car in my name unless I have a registration certificate. I phoned the Alberta lic. bureau and was told the same thing. They say it was the responsibility of the seller to give me a reg. certificate. I tried to explain that the car sat in a barn for maybe 50 yrs. and the reg. was long gone. But they offered no advice or solution to my problem. Without the reg. they can do nothing! I have put a lot of time and money in this car and if I can't get the license for it I am really up the creek!
My question is; have any of you fellows ever had this problem with your cars and, if so, how did you resolve it?
Thanks in advance, Doug.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

This is common when purchasing a motor vehicle without documents both in US and Canada plus your DMV folks generally don't have a clue any more than ours. There are ways to get an assemblers title here in the US but I don't know about Canada. Some states here in the US use registration documents only on older cars and title serviceas take advantage of that since it is sometimes very easy to get a registration in those states since they require no title for older cars.

Check up on the regs for your province and then see if other provinces may have differences that could be more advantageous or see if there is a way to get the car legal through the judicial system of your province. When there is a will and a few legal affidavits of previous ownership, there is likely a way that is legal and legitimate.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

If the car has really been in a barn for 50 years, and there is no record, file for a lost title. In California, to do this you need a Vin inspection, from a LEO, thats it.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

I had this same issue after rebuilding a 1937 Ford cabriolet from parts gathered from far and wide. I'm from Alberta. After discussing this situation ad nauseum with multiple registry people I went to a lawyer friend with a consise letter of explanation and my simple bill of sale for a bare 37 body. He had me sign an affidavit that the sale document and my letter was true and that the serial number that I was using was indeed relevant to the vehicle. In reality this whole exercise was smoke and mirrors and irrelevant to the registration process. However, the barely above her teens registry clerk loved all the official documents and I was out the door with everything I needed in less than five.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

I had this same problem in Manitoba in September.
The registry agent simply couldn't wrap their head around the idea that the vehicle was last insured before computers existed.

After two weeks of this mess I gave up and went to a different agent and they did it in five minutes with a simple phone call.

So the first thing I would do is go to a different insurance / registry outlet and try again.

You could also look up your local vintage car club and give one of the members a call. I'm sure they have been through it as well.

Kirk

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

You could also look up your local vintage car club and give one of the members a call. I'm sure they have been through it as well.

Kirk[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I did. They put me in contact with a retired ICBC agent who knew the right way to get this accomplished. It ended up costing me $100 for his time and the registry fee. Well worth it and way easier then dealing with the insurance agent just out of high school that doesn't even have their drivers licence yet.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

That's a growing problem for anyone with an old car, let alone one that is 83 years old. The passage of time has resulted in a loss of knowledge about all the variations in local titling and registration practices in the past, many of which have changed in the ensuing years. When you try explain that some jurisdictions did not issue titles back in the day to someone young enough to be your grandchild, you often get a blank, suspicious look, which in some cases suggest that you're trying to pull a fast one. As often as not, there's no one in the office that the clerk can turn to for enlightenment.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

I had the same situation with my 1948 Merc 114 made in Windsor. The guy I bought it from in Ontario said the car came from Sask.,had never been registered in Ontario. Any licence bureau will have a printout of what is needed to register the car. A sworn affidavit is required. I "googled" the affidavit and found a site that had a "boilerplate affidavit"-just fill in the blanks. I took it to our local licence bureau and he said it was one of the best he has seen. Some licence offices have someone who can act as a notary so you dont' have to pay a lot (lawyer) to get the affidavit notarized. Hope this helps. Let me know if I can explain further.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

Thanks to all for responding. I spoke to a guy today who had a similar problem and resolved it by going directly to the provincial police. They will do a search to see if the car was stolen and, (for a fee), supply the necessary documentation so I can register it. Hope it works out! I will keep you posted on the outcome.
Doug.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

"It ended up costing me $100 for his time and the registry fee."


All that for $100?? Seems very reasonable.
How much does it cost to register a vehicle there?

Manuel in Oz

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

For information:

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

Update on my situation; still getting the runaround from the buraucracy!! After many phone calls etc. I was able to speak to a police officer who told me there was a form he could provide me with which shoud resolve the issue. He came and looked at the car and verified that the serial # on my bill of sale was correct and did a search to prove that the car was never reported stolen. We filled out the form and off I went back to the license bureau and was told that the form means nothing and without a registration I cannot put the car in my name!!!! Not sure what to do next but I'm starting to get really scared that I'll never be able to register this car in my name. I've spent a lot of money and countless hours on this car. Anyone out there with any ideas I would be grateful for your input.
Doug.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

Transfer of ownership is $30. He took care of the forms, research and filing the appropriate papers.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

Hi Everyone. No experience at all here, but maybe a call to your friendly state/province elected official's office might get you going in the correct direction?

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

Can't understand why you are having such a problem. Are the laws different in Quebec than Ontario? If you see my previous post, it is pretty straightforward in Ontario even with no registration. The avidavit that you have to write and have notorized is the key component, along with a bill of sale. The licence bureau should be guiding you through this, it's not like this has never happened before.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

Dyna, unfortunately Quebec is notorious for its love of buraucracy. On top of that there seems to be some kind of rivalry or politics going on between the police and the licence bureau. The officer who came and saw my car was very helpful and accomodating and we filled out this 'special' form which he signed. When I took the form and my bill of sale to the lic. bur. the woman there told me that form only proves the car was never stolen and means nothing to them as far as acquiring a registration. I asked her why the police said this is what I need and all I got was attitude from her! She said she doesn't give out traffic tickets on her days off and the police dept. has no authorization in their affairs! I said, 'merci beaucoup' and walked out!
Doug.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

I forgot to mention that I did ask about a notorized statement from the guy I bought it from saying he never had a registration and the answer was still no!
Doug.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

Whether it is a title or a registration, it all boils down to legal ownership. It sounds like folks in your registration bureau may not understand all the regulations and they could probably care less since this is basic human nature (a position of power can go to some peoples head). You need to find out from someone in the know or you need to get access to the regulations and find out if there is a procedure that the RB folks you have been dealing with don't know about.

Here in the US, a person can get a legal ownership of anything from a court order. In this case the judge is a representative of a state that can grant you legal ownership of what you have. This is legal representation by the state and it has to be recognized by all of the state officials or they will be in violation of a state court order. There are similar ways of doing this in some states through a bonded title but all that does is give notice that a person is taking legal possession of something in that state but in a way it amounts to about the same thing.

I'm sure that such things can be done in a province of Canada as well. This is how a government can confiscate a possession, for one reason or another, from someone and in turn distribute that article to another person through due process. These processes go on daily in just about every free nation in the world as well as a lot of dictatorships. In that case they just take what they want so that doesn't apply here.

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

Doug, what if you sell it to me, then I register it in Vermont and sell it back to you! Just a thought if you cant find another resolution. I don't know if it would work but if you investigate it and it would I am happy to help. I'm near Burlington Vt about 100 miles from Montreal

Re: Question for Canadian barners
 

Id try to register it in another province, hopefully you'd know someone, might be best in Alberta, no PST there, just GST @ 5%, you might be able to put in in your name, friends address then move to QC and change address, theres gotta be a way to beat the government