Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Took my original 34 front and rear leaf spring to a professional leaf spring repair workshop in South Africa!
They reversed the eyes on both main leaves.
However the front and rear leaf main springs are now a little shorter and the eyes are somewhat offset!!! Now is that normal ? What went wrong ? The spring looked good when it came back, all professionally done.
No-one here has experience with reversing the eye of a leaf spring and installing it.
Anyone for advice on what we are doing wrong!
I wonder if we havent messed it up now and if i have to install stock springs again.
Sounds all easier than it is😔

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Trying to post some photos!

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

It is really hard to picture what you're saying??? How can the spring be shorter if it was made from the same original leaf? Did they make you new ones? Also, include some pictures of the "offset" problem - can't imagine what you're trying to convey?

And as I finished my post . . . poooooooof, the showed up!

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

If it was mine, I'd take it back to them and have them fix the problems they created. This should be standard stuff . . . that spring shops have been doing forever.

I can understand the rear spring giving them some head scratching (giving the goofy Ford curve), but the front is super simple . . . they must have some issues they need to attend too.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

...

John

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Exactly, same question i asked myself since we gave them the original stock springs which they disassembled, reversed the eyes on the main leaves and reassembled again.
The company said they can do nothing about it, but i dont understand the difference in length and offset eyehole either.
So you would think it a problem in the workprocess of leaf alteration?

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Very much a manual process. You heat up the eye, unroll it while trying to keep it straight, heat up again, and re-roll in a bender - and finish off manually to get the proper eye size.

One might even trim the curled end a bit to get it to "come together."

Very much fraught with places to go wrong, or places where errors can creep in.

A good spring shop knows about the errors - and the corrections - and does these intuitively along the way. Not so good shops don't care so much.

I would speak to another shop if you have one available. They might correct the issue quickly - but then they might defer. Each heating results in "grain-growth" which alters the chemistry of the spring and eventually make the results brittle or soft - either of which condemns the spring. Spring changes are limited and commonly once only.

You may be at the point where you have to spring the bucks to get a reverse-eye'ed spring from a reproducer. But let the better shop tell you that.

Joe K

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I have had it done many times with no issue, this is the spring shops problem. Do they have the ability to make a new one (with new material)? I agree with going to another shop if possible, but there are normally not that many around. Next step would be to get them to make a new one, even if it cost some extra. They should recognize that the one they worked on for you is not usable.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Thank you all for the reply!
What are my alternatives?
The Posies 34 reversed eye rear leaf spring is an option, but its so darn expensive and i would have to ship it to South Africa. Besides not really traditional. I wanted to use original parts in a traditional way, now my original set springs is gone and from your reply i realise that the work was not done accurately and i cannot install the springs.
Its obviously not normal!
Isnt there a possibility of aquiring a correct fitting 34 reverse eye main leaf and fitting it to the rest of the leaves? I was told nobody makes singles anymore in the USA and i doubt i want anyone in South Africa dealing with this again.
There must be guys who can do correct reverse eyes to stock main leaves.
Thanks Randolf

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Any spring shop can do one, you just had a bad experience with the one you used. If you can come up with another main spring leaf you can reverse them yourself with a little effort, no heat involved.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Eaton spring makes springs to factory blueprint and custom springs but you would still have cost plus shipping.
https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/leaf-springs/


John

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

My guess is that they cut off the original eyes and rolled new ones. That offset isn't going to work with your shackles.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I've found just the single eyed leaf spring on Amazon for $40 . It was for my 34 front .

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Take a square to the leaf spring and the bolts . It'll show them the amount of angle

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Looks to me as though they have cut the ends off and welded new ends on. Looks like a weld just inboard of the eyes in all your photos. Totally wrong!!

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

It is hard to tell from pictures what is going on. My '32-'34 spring looks like the eyes are perpendicular to the spring leaf. There is a slight angle on the spring hanger that is part of the axle. I think what you are trying to show is too much angle. I am wondering if your hangar has been modified? Another bit of trivia. When you reverse the eyes you do it by reshaping the main leaf and turning it over. The eyes are not modified. See this thread on HAMB: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...g-eyes.225377/

Charlie Stephens

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

That's what I was referring to as the non-heat method. A spring shop would most likely heat the ends, straighten them & reroll them.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

It looks like you posted pics of the rear spring.
I can't imagine actually rerolling the eyes. The shackle has to fit perfectly and the original eye had a tapered end to the roll. All the springs I have seen were reversed by reverse bending the leaf arc. Simple.
The rear spring looks fine to me.The shackle is supposed to be sguare to the spring. The spring hangers are canted to accomadate the angled spring.The spring should be a little shorter in the real world as originally the eyes were angled in at the bottom and with a reversed spring, they angle out. This lenghens the spring.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Andy, spring shops have the tools to make the eyes, like a mandrel. I have had a number of them made. Piece of cake if the shop knows what it is doing.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

,they heat the spring to below red then press it at 2"intervals until it curves the other way ,I would be asking for new replacements.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I have had them made as well. The problem I was worried about was the scarf at the end of the eye where it wraps around to form a complete eye. I guess they could bend that flat and then get it to reform in the other direction.
Tricky
I hope the OP's spring is actually fine

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

The end of the spring material is beveled before it is rolled into shape. It is a very nice tight fit, most of the guys are good at what they do. I have never watched the actual heating and bending process, so not sure what type of equipment they use. But, I have always been happy with the results and the price. The last 33 Ford front main spring I had made took less than 24 hrs and cost $25.

Just looked up and watched a video of how the eyes are rolled. It is a fairly quick procedure, interesting. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...8&&FORM=VRDGAR

The eye forming parts is between 1:50 and 2:10.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

There was an article about this situation a couple of years back in one of the hot rod magazines at the time. The easiest way I can think of explaining it is that the ends of the leaves are not horizontal. They come down from the center and have a very distinct angle from horizontal at the end. The unmodified spring, at it's free state, has the eyes at the bottom and, due to the angle, they are a little bit inboard of the ends of the "straight" portion of the spring. If the spring is reformed so that the eyes are at the top, they will now be a little bit outboard of the "straight" portion of the leaf. If the eyes are 3/4" ID and the leaf is 1/4" thick and the angle of the "straight" portion of the leaf is 30º from horizontal, the eye could each be 1/2" outboard of where it was before the spring was reformed. If this makes sense to you could you explain it to me???

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Randolf, Nice chatting with you today. I'd say first thing is contact the spring shop and find out what exactly they did. If they cut the eye off and welded it back on, DO NOT USE IT! If they cut the eyes off and re-rolled new ones the spring is going to be way to short. They should have heated the spring in a forge, flipped it with a press method & re-tempered it. The stock rear '32-'34 spring is curved & the spring eyes are not square. The rear axle spring hangers are also angled to match the spring. If they do not match then the spring shop did something incorrectly. Hope some of this helps. Talk to you soon.

Riley

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Wow, so much Info and help,
thanks everybody👍
Riley: thats exactly what iam going to do, find out what exactly the did!!

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I always thought that spring eyes were reversed by carefully re-arcing the main leaf in the opposite direction without reforming the spring eyes. Like this:
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...g-eyes.225377/

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Fordy, that link was already posted in this thread (#16), not that posting it again hurts anything, lot of interesting information. There is a difference between what a spring shop does and what you do in your garage. But I have to confess, I have never watched the actual work being performed in the shops! And, I have never had an existing spring reversed!! I just have them make new main spring to my dimensions. Cheap, quick and new. The last one I had made was for a 33 front axle and cost around $25. That was around 4 years ago. One thing that might impact cost is the heat (fuel) involved. I always waited until they had a batch to run so the fuel cost was spread across a number of jobs. They run them often enough that it was normally only a 24 hr thing, versus while you wait.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Oops! I should have read all the previous posts. Thanks.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

It's really an interesting thread and the first reference was somewhat buried in the post, so might be good it was reposted for anyone that is interested.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I made a little bench top press & did mine. Used my porta-power

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I spoke to the spring shop today and i have to say they did well, they tried their best, no welds, no recoiling, just flipping the main leaf over with heating and bench press and keeping the eye as is. They are the best in the area and in the trade for a long time. Quite upset about my questions, giving the impression to the world theres a bunch of backward honks that have just discovered the wheel.


That never was my intention, the issues are there and it just shows, the devil is in the detail and experience, experience. A tradition in the US, a novum for South Africa. If i would have known, what i know now from this thread, l would have given better instructions or maybe have decided completely different on where to have it done, if at all.


Still today people are begging me not to do this, i mean dropped axle and reverse eye spring and to return from the dark side ... but its in my mind..grinning:D
Now its like " we told you"!



Anyhow, the spring hangers on the rear axle are untampered with and have the correct angle, the rear springeye hooks in to the shackle bolt on one side and is 5-7mm short to the other side. Due to the angle the spring can only fit this one way. Of course there could be many reasons, maybe thats within a tolerable margin, one could discuss this endlessly.


I asked my builder to dissassemble the pack and try to hook the main leave in. He said that was a lot more difficult in theory than in practice.

We asked for a reheating of the one eye to give it just that more length but they adamantly refused, because of the fatigue and brittleness it will cause with possible fracture. There are safety issues and worries - understandable, its not like in the US and i have to accept that... and it made me think!!


I have a rumble seat, so there is additional load in the back and its questionable if the 80 year old stock spring with reversed eye could handle that additional load. Maybe its better that way and i should think more about safety than anything else.
The idea of a traditional build using only original parts is naive when you dont have the knowhow or only a book to go by, unless you have a few Vern Tardels in your neighbourhood, and original parts readily available.

The front spring actually fits, but is very close to the dog-bone shock link on one side -
will opt for bolt on Eaton or Posies reverse eye springs, also for safety reasons.
Thanks all for the help and information.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Thanks for the update.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Never weld a spring or heat bend... on any spring metal. Yikes!!! (maybe when cutting a coil off a later 50s front end, big coil springs)


They might have gave it a bit more arch when reversing it making it shorter some and also adding height. You could have them Flatten it a bit since you are doing this to lower the car.


There was a how-too thread on the HAMB many moons ago about reversing a spring. First thing you did was use some chalk on the garage floor and outline the arch of the main spring... oops I see it's posted above. Also what Pete said.


Installing a reverse eye is more funner too

.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I just made up a spreader for reversed eye springs, mainly for an 'A' rear but I don't know how it would work for a spring not centered (front and back) over the axle.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266539

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I think your spring is fine. I have reversed several 32-34 front and rear springs for my cars. I do all mine cold as mentioned above. Lay the spring on the floor, mark the arc of the spring, then mark the spring in 2" increments and run it through my press, pressing on the marks. Keep running it through until the arc is the same, but the eyes are reversed. Sometimes I'll take a little arc out of it if I want it a bit lower. Usually takes about an hour, but I creep up on it.
In theory, the spring gets longer when you reverse it. The eves obviously originally point down & in, when you reverse the eyes they point up & out. In actually use, it's not an issue. What makes it seem shorter though, is the second leaf. You HAVE to shorten it about 1/2" to 3/4" because it will hit the now reversed eyes. Think about it, with the eyes in the original position, the second leaf ends right above the eye, and moves out a little as the spring compresses. Now that the eye is reversed, it's in the path of the second leaf. If it clears the leaf at all, it will bind against the eye when compressed. The solution, trim each end of the spring.
Also, I install all my reversed eye springs unassembled, and I think that's the way most do it. Install the main leaf & shackles. You can easily bow the single main leaf by hand to install it. Then start stacking your leafs using a longer center bolt to line them up, and c-clamp each leaf in place as you go. When you get them all on, carefully tighten the long center bolt and then cut off the excess bolt. That's it.
So...The spring looks fine to me. The eyes of the spring should be square to the leaf, and yours are. Disassemble the spring. Shorten second leaf to clear reversed eyes. Install main leaf in car and assemble spring pack using longer bolt & c clamps. It may sound daunting, and apparently it sounds daunting to your builder, but this is quite simple really. And also standard stuff that has to be done to get the low stance that you want.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

Also, after reading that the rear spring fits in the shackle correctly but is too short to reach the other one....remember that these style springs have to be spread to install them, even a stock spring. That's why spreader bars were made for these springs. They don't work on reversed eye.springa though, so the springs have to be disassembled and the main leaf installed first as I described above. This is really basic early Ford suspension hot rodding, and has been done this way for years. Maybe he isnt.familiar with

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I think A lot of effort to gain a inch or so ,you can remove a leave or two to get the same drop then at some point the suspension will bottom out any way, maybe longer shackles on the back but that comes with its own side affects .a dropped axle will drop it and most likely retain the correct function of the suspension, several ways of using a spreader bar on a reversed eye spring have been posted here in the past ,

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I made this spring spreader for 40 springs but found I could use it on my 32 reversed eye rear spring using simply fabricated brackets.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221679

Mart.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I have had springs reversed at a sheet metal shop by rearching in a large roller.

Re: Help: Reverse eye leaf spring problem 34 Ford
 

I installed the springs by putting the car on stands and jacking the ends of the springs up intil I could install the other shackle. Start with one shackle installed and held level. You are not lifting the whole weight of the car as the shackles are level. The spring is bolted down so it can't go anywhere.