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Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Chris,
It's something of a mixture, with a late '33-'34 starter motor, '32 upper flywheel housing, and a '32 water inlet casting on the left side of the block. Given the crankshaft, it is perhaps a pre-counterbalanced crankshaft '32 long block with selected '33 items added to it for use in a '33 truck. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Quote:
I will check with NAPA on the sealer too. Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Quote:
Thanks for the details on the various engine components. I have not gotten up to speed on these to even know what I am looking at yet! Would become even more jumbled if this #2 engine becomes a candidate to put in the truck. Letting the engine thing simmer for a day or two. Putting up wood in the shop to try to get this next room wall covering finished up. Hate to say but fall and winter are just around the next bend! Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Folks,
Ok new day, Monday, Life is good on this side of the sod! Worked the low wood most of the day yesterday. Well I did do a carb rework on my daughters Massey Harris Pony tractor. Found some one put a rubber oring under the seat portion of the needle valve assembly. was leaking gas through there i think.? Back to the Ford Model B engines and such. I am going to do a little more honing on the cylinders and then decide if I want to do a refurb like my Uncle Jack would have done. He ran old used equipment all his life. Mostly trucks for his Sand and gravel business in Beaver Center PA. He did a lot of just re-ringing engines and sending them back out into service. His situation was that the truck could not be down for a long time and had to be back to work in a couple days at most. I have looked at the end of the crankshaft where the front seal (rope) contacts. It has a groove worn there. Is that normal?? I would think that should be smooth and straight?? So if I did put this #2 engine together in would be a mix and match of various components from both engines. Picking the best or only items to get one complete engine together. Stay tuned I may drag all of you through a very messy, non typical, old school, farmer approched, rigged, old engine refurb! Heck! Might even learn something along the way too. Who is the expert on these front and rear seals? What are the tricks and things that must be done?? Or is there a good tread on the subject? Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck “Stay tuned I may drag all of you through a very messy, non typical, old school, farmer approched, rigged, old engine refurb! ”
Uncle Jack is watching.......with a BIG smile........Mark |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Chris,
That groove is wear-induced, but it should not be on the crankshaft itself, rather on the shank of the crankshaft pulley which encases the front of the crankshaft. The original fabric/asbestos rope-type seals were pretty tough and eventually wore down the cast iron of the pulley shank. You can obtain a new pulley from Snyder's who offer a two-piece semi-modern version where the pulley and shank are separate. Personally, I prefer the original one-piece version, which aren't that difficult to find. The only seal in the rear is a cork one between the curved lip of the oil pan and the outer groove in the rear main bearing cap. Within the rear end of the main bearing cap on the crankshaft is a circular slinger which causes the oil trying to escape to flow out the tube in the front of that bearing cap back into the oil pan. A modern seal can be incorporated, but some machining is required, I believe. t |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck 1 Attachment(s)
Your crankshaft pulley looks like one of the aluminum or pot metal
after market ones. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Chris,
I know in todays world your uncles approach is frowned on, but it got him by which was used everyday and certainly would for your application. Love to read and follow your projects! Steve |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Folks,
Thanks for the support. Yea probably My uncle would be smiling! But I did hear him also say that typical re ring and get it back together did not last long in his work trucks. Mostly he had small GMC dumps, then moved up to GMC 860's, over the road, trucks when he hauled steel between Youngstown OH and Buffalo NY. Those trucks were so ugly you almost had to love them! He really enjoyed the whine of those Detroit Diesels! The 32 Dump: So we are going down a old overgrown dark path with the B engine #2. Kind of dragging it along with us. Will it ever run again? What are the chances? So today I looked at the cylinder bores a little more. Checked Snyders catalog and noted that new rings should have a lets say (because I cant remember) .015 inch gap when installed in the bore. Humm. Pulled off a top ring from a piston and inserted it into said bore. Humm. .220 gap! Measured the bore with just a vernier caliper and it was 3.922 inches IIRC. Which would be .046 over stock bore. Humm? Checked a couple times, Yep. So in my infinite wisdom I called Snyders and ordered a set of .040 pistons and rings. will they go in and function?? The plot thickens! Joe at Snyders mentioned that maybe they (original owners) couldn't get .040 pistons?? He will send me some new ones to at least set here for a day or two while we think on this a little more too. Also will include one of those fancy dancy valve guide removal tools! By the way tooling is not part of the project cost, its just another needed tool!:) I plan to try to use the pulley from engine #1 for the front of this crank. I think! Did I mention that stuff is falling out of the sky towards this truck again. Friend John K with the 48 Ford, brought me a set of the fancy turn signals similar to what is on the truck but in better shape. And another Ford guy brought me a box of old light bulbs in original boxes. I have to wear a helmet when I walk out side now!:) Also thanks to another Ford Barn guy I have a potential chance at this used 32 radiator that might just be the ticket to solve that portion of the puzzel. https://i.imgur.com/Xt4A6oN.jpg?1 We try to teach as we go along too. Ok I am the student. But here is a look at the difference David mentioned between the upper 33-34 timing cover and the lower 32 style cover and engine support bracket. https://i.imgur.com/QQ43sVy.jpg Rest of the day was spent working the low wood. I now have sized, sanded and coated all the 8 foot long hemlock. When that is up, the big room will have three walls to finish and the two stacks of 12 footers will be whittled into something that looks like walls. Hope things are good in Ford land. Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Great looking truck. Looks very straight for a commercial/working class vehicle. I've always thought that Ford makes the best looking trucks in the world.. no exceptions!
Regards Kevin |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Kevin, Folks,
They still do look pretty nice for almost 90 years old! This old work truck has many scars from its life as a daily driver hauling cans of water and lengths of pipe to the water well drilling sites in our area. Have tossed and turned most of the night on the engine issues. And I believe that I need to proceed at the machine shop with the #1 engine machine work to have it ready to go in some months away. The truck deserves that new fresh engine even if it a couple years from now. Its waited this long! Which means next year some time, maybe for its 90'th birthday? In the mean time I will continue to review engine #2 for the possibility that it could be assembled, to be a temporary engine for moving the truck around. So that's today's plan. But its still early in North Western Pennsylvania! Very interesting, just the fact, that this old truck has brought folks from around the globe to my shop. Awesome Ford Folks out there! Thanks to all of you! Off to put up hemlock! Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Sugarmaker,
This is an awesome thread! I enjoy reading about your truck adventures. Al Hook |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Al, Ford Folks,
Glad your enjoying the thread on the old Ford dump. We did some testing on it today. Friend Jim from Bugs & Tugs came over to help move the 32 to a new spot in the shop. He towed the truck out into the road for the first time its felt pavement with its new shoes on. And first time its been on the road for many years! The brakes were tested several times as Jim pulled me around to the north side of the shop with the Allis WZ. https://i.imgur.com/boI7OOz.jpg You get a real feel for the size of this dump truck compared to the not very big Allis tractor. Point being its not a very big truck. It will not be that easy to get in and out of with my big clod hoppers! It did steer ok and brakes felt pretty good! https://i.imgur.com/b063llM.jpg https://i.imgur.com/DkrVcst.jpg https://i.imgur.com/GiiJTHr.jpg https://i.imgur.com/HthWFUA.jpg This room has the wall material completed. Moving the 32 here will allow me to begin some of hemlock on the big bay walls. It seems happy to get a different view also. https://i.imgur.com/nIkNfCu.jpg I believe I secured a good used radiator for the truck too. More on that later. Was able to finish the walls in another room this evening. Thanks to Jim for the help! These shots were taken early this morning before we relocated the 32. Next wall will be where the two overheads are. Before: https://i.imgur.com/zhnA2gN.jpg After: https://i.imgur.com/6kTeXxS.jpg Getting there on the shop project. Need to get a bunch more trim screws and Varethane. Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck I think it has been a long time, if ever, since it enjoyed such fancy surroundings.
And you're right, it is a bit dwarfed by the Allis. It's contemporary sibling Lincolns had either 5" or 14" more wheelbase. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck David,
Thanks for the compliment on the shop! No different than a car or truck project getting the details complete takes time. It has been a year and a month since we set the poles. Looking forward to having a winter hang out where it is somewhat comfortable too. Back at it today on the West wall. For some reason I like working with this hemlock material. I built the sugarhouse with rough cut and it has been a great addition to the property for 20 years. Looking forward to having some good visits in this shop with new friends too. Had someone visit every day this week!:) I already have a potential engine removal project on a 48 (or 46) Ford car. Helping John K (Mr Ford) who has the nice black 48 coupe. The little jib crane should work well for things like that project too. One thing I did not do was get a floor coating. So I get some marks from oil leaks. spills. The 32: The scale of this truck is just right for the type of project I was looking for. And one of the criteria of buying it was that it had to fit on my car hauler. Since I have driven a lot of tractors and non power steering Fords this should just feel like a old truck to drive. But sure is different view over the hood of one of these old Ford trucks! Its growing on me! Should be getting some new engine parts from Snyder's today. Will do some looking and test fitting of those items! We continue to learn something every day! Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Folks,
We continue to evaluate the 33 engine options. We understand all the right things to do but the brain continues to think we can make a silk purse from a sows ear! Why do our brains do that. Ok we are all wired different. I grew up with not much and had to make do and make things work for years. Must be a carry over from that era?:) The shop work is a good distraction so that a person doesn't get all tangled up in a old Ford truck. :) My seat upholsterer has set my 32 seats aside for many other much better paying projects. Its ok, they will come along at just the right time. So the truck may look like poopy doopy but the seats will be fresh! The used 32 radiator should be on its way to me shortly. Thanks for who ever mentioned it to the owner of that item. Life is good! The two Great grandsons are here for the day! Wife's birthday. Hope things are good out there in Ford land! Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Just be careful and do the best job you can with the best materials you can get and don't make any obvious mistakes. This strategy got me reliably back and forth to work and college for 6 years with some very marginal vehicles. These old cars will take a lot; I'm sure we have all hear similar stories from back in the day of the durability of these things.
The only difference these days is that you don't want to take chance on a serious error, because you just can't pop down to the local junkyard and get another engine for $50. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Tubman, Folks,
The 32 engine status: https://i.imgur.com/tyHOHz8.jpg This bad crack has pretty much put this block in the category of unusable. Maybe could be patched? Probably not by me. Some spare parts will be reviewed from this engine and evaluated during the machining work for #1 engine machining. So we will start back on the engine #1 and continue to learn about these 90 year old engines. One of the first steps at the machine shop will be to pressure test it. Great grandsons and I went to the Big Crawford County Fair, Candy apples, Hot Sausage, Maple milkshakes, Lemon aid, Cinnamon taffy, the cows, pigs, sheep, horses, and the goats below. They wore me out, but had a ball with them!:) https://i.imgur.com/4bCTj8r.jpg https://i.imgur.com/gzreaJ6.jpg Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Too bad about that crack. That's exactly he sort of thing that will put a quick stop to a project like this. Just about anything can be fixed though. Years ago, a friend of mine was able to score a '28 LaSalle roadster for a good price. Unfortunately, the previous owner had left it outside over the winter and the block was badly cracked. Knowing the value of the car, he found someone to repair the block. It took several weeks (most of it in a huge oven heating up and cooling down), but he got it fixed. He never had a problem with it, but is was what I would call "prohibitavely expensive".
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Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck That's an unusual location for a crack in one of the B blocks; well hidden from a casual inspection of the usual places where it would occur. If it were a true '32 V8 block it might be worth the expense of saving it, but with a B block, not likely.
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Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Tubman, David, Folks,
Well this crack looks even worse after some scrubbing. multiple hair line fissures. I believe it may be from freezing also. I am going to give this one more chance and have called on a third welder to come and look at it. And I have a fourth welder that is very good if I need him. We will do a little more evaluation of this potential repair of the crack before the death notice is signed on this block. At this time it is resting comfortably! Sure glad I seen this issue! Would have really been disappointed with myself if I had gotten well into this engine #2 assembly or even if it had got in the truck and then found it! Things lurk in the shadows of these old engines. I also should have known better and should have cleaned the block better and did a good visual exam when I got it home. I did not! Another good reason that pressure testing these old blocks is one of the first steps in a known situation. I also found that the baffle in the oil pan was not in place and had been rubbing on the bottom of the crank. Must have made a heck or a racket! Maybe that is why this engine was removed from its original vehicle? Then had just water and froze on a cold winter night in Mid Tennessee and broke the block? That's my story!:) On a side note but related, a larger .040 over sized piston can now slide through each cylinder bore. That was not the case a couple days ago. So some adjustments happened while I was resting!:) Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck That happens to Model A's also, not the end of the world. See the link.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...d+block&page=2 |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Bob, Folks,
Maybe there is a ray of hope for the block damage on this #2 engine? Thanks for the link and support too. Gave me some ideas. Maybe silver solder fix?? So If I was to pressure test a block to look for other issue, I would need to plug all the water areas. Since these are not pressure systems would low pressure air be better than water? So I would have to seal off the water pump area and the exit to the radiator from the block? I guess I am concerned that there may be another spot that froze and broke on this block that I may not be able to see? Off to see the wizard! Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Chris,
The opening on the side of the block is the water inlet; it exits through the water pump to the radiator. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck David, Folks,
Thanks for the clairification on the inlet outlet path. I am learning every day! So the cracked block: Looks a lot like a road map! Friend Jim F came over and thinks it can be brazed. https://i.imgur.com/KHYqMks.jpg While looking at options he felt it would be good to get a better handle on the cracks. Off to the big city to get die penetrante for checking. https://i.imgur.com/C4boKTt.jpg Cleaned then wipe it off and allow to dry then the die applied: https://i.imgur.com/i5B8maT.jpg Allow 15 min then wipe it off and spray on the white developer: https://i.imgur.com/ODlgwZE.jpg I did pick up some nickle rod as a secondary approach to stuffing something in these cracks. The casting is very thin in this area too. Should be a challange! Off into the world of antique tractor pulling with two of the Allis-Chalmers today. Traveling to Sherman NY to Meeders farm fun pulls. While resting I installed the wall covering material behind the jib crane. Here it is half done, like about every thing I do.:) https://i.imgur.com/R3DvNEw.jpg Hope things are good in Ford Land! Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck One thing for sure, you'll really want to preheat. I'd also recommend welding blankets to slow the cooling process down. You might want to try silicon bronze TIG rod - if you happen to have a TIG setup. No matter what you do, I'd sure practice on some similar cast iron - to get the hang of it first.
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Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Dale,
Thanks! I will have to get creative on the heat up and cool down methods! Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck When I was working in the Post machine shop as part of Project Transition before I got out of the Army we had a large box filled with lime that we used to gradually cool down critical parts that had been welded. Don't know if something like that would work on the block or not. It would be fairly easy to build a large box but I have know idea how much lime it would take or the cost or if its even the correct process. Those with much more knowledge than me will know for sure.
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Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck You will get get all kind of opinions on this. However the true real story is you can not successfully weld cast iron with electric welding, no matter what rod you use. The localized small area from the arc will create cemetite, martinsite (iron carbide) and will crack over time. Gas welding with cast iron rod (made from cast iron, not nickel) will work as you must heat a large area. For welding, the preheat must be 1200 degrees F and for a block must take 24 hours to heat up and 24 to 30 hours to cool. Brazing is the best bet and done with gas torch. Preheat must be 900 degrees F. This is the process used for remanufacturing diesel engine blocks and cylinder heats. I have seen this done on certified Cat , Detroit and Cummings factory reman engines. For the non believers, you can actually go to the lock n stitch website and they will confirm this. Without proper pre heating and not using gas will eventually fail by cracking. Properly done even a high performance a exhaust manifold can be repaired Build an igloo out of fire brick and blankets and use a natural gas large torch and heat it up to 900 degrees and braze it. 24 hours to preheat and 24 hour to cool.
that will work. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck “Brazing is the best bet and done with gas torch. Preheat must be 900 degrees F. This is the process used for remanufacturing diesel engine blocks and cylinder heats. I have seen this done on certified Cat , Detroit and Cummings factory reman engines. For the non believers, you can actually go to the lock n stitch website and they will confirm this. Without proper pre heating and not using gas will eventually fail by cracking. Properly done even a high performance a exhaust manifold can be repaired Build an igloo out of fire brick and blankets and use a natural gas large torch and heat it up to 900 degrees and braze it. 24 hours to preheat and 24 hour to cool.
that will work.” I had a long crack similar to the one in your block in the water jacket of a 33 Chrysler straight 8 repaired by brazing. Keep in mind that with that process you will likely have to line bore and deck the block. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Gentlemen thank you for the positive and productive comments. With those details my chance for success on repairing this block may be very low. As I do not have the facilities/ equipment to preheat and or cool down that unit to those requirements at this time. So we will do another review of the process tomorrow and decide the next moves on the cracked block issues.
Your continued support and information is very valuable as I learn some additional details about repairs like this. Very warm here today! Friend Jim from Bugs & Tugs, and I pulled old Allis tractors today. Two classes 4000 lb and 4500 lb antique class and won in both. Was a good day for the orange team! Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Ford Folks,
Ok here is the plan. Jim F is going to come and do the brazing on this cracked block. Heating will be done with oxy/ actelene torch. Then braze and then a slow cool down. I think I have some insulation that we can wrap the block in. I did open all the valves and pull the cam and gear. I was a little worried that the phonelic gear might be compromised with the heat in that area Will get some pictures. Regards, Chris. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Good luck; I am waiting to see how this turns out. About 20 years ago , I hit the wall with my hemi-powered modified and broke two of the three "ears" cast into the block where the motor mounts bolt on. I talked to a friend of mine (who was a union sprinkler system pipe-fitter), and he said "bring 'er over". I had found one of the broken "ears" on the track after the race, but the third was missing. He went out in his back field, perused some of the old equipment there, and knocked an ear off an old hay rake with a big hammer. He than fired up his old stick welder with nickel rod, and after considerable pre-heating, he welded both "ears" back on. My job during all of this was to hold his oxy/acetylene torch on the area pre-heating and gradually cooling down, while he drank about a dozen beers.
It's still holding fine. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck 4 Attachment(s)
Here are some pics of welding cast iron done correctly by certified remanufacturing company suppling genuine reman engines, blocks and heads to Cat, Cummins, etc. There is no electric welder in the cast iron room. Electric welding is used only in the crankshaft department for building up cranks back to standard. The bunch of heads are in for crack repairs that radiate from valve to valve and injector holes. They will be gas welded with cast iron, no nickel rod allowed. They actually puddle the entire combustion chamber and remachine the entire head. These guys know what they are doing.
Just trying to be helpful, preheating, cooling and gas welding are key. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck 1 Attachment(s)
That would be one way of getting the babbitt out.
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Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Tubman,
Floyd, Bob, Folks, Well engine #2 saga continues. Its late to late for me to post much about brazing the block. But it has enough barze on it that it could qualify as a early Model T! Some highlights: Started at 3:00 Just got in the house at midnight from playing with it all afternoon and evening. Bottom line is that this was not easy! Did we get the cracks? Well maybe? mre testing in the morning. Did we reduce the size of the hole in the block? yes when I checked by actually filling the block with water it was only a trickle. Drained and took one last try at it. Yes preheating something like this and cool down is not easy/ straight forward. This portion of the block was only about .040 thick. About like doing body work. We made many more cracks and chased those. The dye worked well to locate the problems. I would say there is a 40%- 50% chance this brazing work will allow this engine to run and hold water again. Was a great learning experience for me! Will have some pictures tomorrow. More testing then too. Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck So is there a reason you must fix this block or why your not trying to get another line on another block? I get it b blocks aren't falling out of trees. Very neat, hope it works! How do you weld internal cracks in the water jackets?
Interesting concept could be to electrical charge a motor and infuse it with an element like powdercoating. Then bake the motor. I realize this doesn't exist but a concept anyways. . |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck I think it is easy to over think these repairs. This is a non pressurised system. Give it your best shot. If a small leak remains, it ought to be able to be dealt with with jb weld type material and/or a stop leak additive in the water. I say water because it is probably better to run plain water initially while chasing down any leaks.
It's an old truck that will probably never see long journeys. You need to approach it with your Grandpa's mindset. Mart. |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Quote:
Neat concept to seal from the inside out! That's creative thinking! So this #2 block is a challange/ learning/ Prototype, we should be able to make a running engine out of it, block. And I am learning. Question of the day is the front and rear seals. Any one want to walk me through that? Also valve adjustment doesnt look to be easy on these!! I have valve lash from .000 to .040! Yikes! More on that later. The #1 block is at the machine shop waiting for its turn to get remachined into a good engine someday? Regards, Chris |
Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck Mart, Folks,
I am real good at over thinking things too. The almost engineer in me comes out. But the jack of all trades comes out and I poke at something till it moves and squeals! We started with a sad broken B block with a road map of cracks! https://i.imgur.com/uuCxc6u.jpg Friend Jim F did most of the brazing till I found more cracks after he left and tried my hand at it too: https://i.imgur.com/WqwBy5L.jpg https://i.imgur.com/HwTe9Y6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/DVhoRgI.jpg https://i.imgur.com/bjHU7Up.jpg I did remember I had some high temp Insulblanket to use as a heat retention cover. https://i.imgur.com/EK5wIcw.jpg So as soon as we would get done brazing the thin casting would crack in another spot.We probably did 10 of those. frustrating but just kept hitting at it! When done I set the block down and filled with water. found one spot leaking, drained and cleaned that area up and brazed again. Thats the current status. Definitely not pretty! I did pull the cam so the gear would not get hot. The lifters were very worn from the valve stems. Like some were .040 deep into the lifter stem where the valve end touches. I know this is not a good thing. I put all but one, un worn lifters in here from my # 1 engine which will get adjustable lifters. But now the lash seems way too tight on some. More info needed on a farmer fix for the valves. Dont be to hard on me on this one!:) Humm Maybe a set of adjustable lifters might be the answer in this situation also?? I think the valves and seats would run pretty well as they are. Tractor pulls tonight and wood interior work mixed in there too! Hope things are good in Ford land! Regards, Chris Regards, Chris |
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