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-   -   1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249229)

tquigley 08-08-2018 09:20 AM

1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

I want to install a 6 cyl Ford engine in my 1954 F100 which came with a V8. Question: Will the V8 bell housing line up with the 1954 6 Cyl engine? Or, will need a 6 cyl bell housing and transmission also?

Herman Munster 08-08-2018 11:12 AM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

My question is why? Do you still have the V8? There's no advantage going that route.
Even if you don't have the V8, another Y-block, like a 292 would still be the way to go.

dmsfrr 08-08-2018 11:44 AM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

Is the 6 cyl engine complete, already in very good running condition and free?
Manual transmission?

tquigley 08-08-2018 12:40 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

The Y block I have needs a total overhaul. Many rebuild parts are unavailable. I cannot do it myself. My 1954 Ford pickup of old had a 6 cylinder. Parts are more available for the 6 cyl. Rebuilt 6 cyls are not that expensive. I know nothing of 292 or their availability (I am a Model T or A enthusiast). That is my reasoning. Do you have any insight if the 6 cyl fits on the drive train of the V8 or if a 292 fits to the current 3 speed transmission? Any informed insight is most welcome.

tquigley 08-08-2018 12:42 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

I have access to a rebuilt 6 cyl. No transmission, hence my question. Will the existing one fit the 1954 6 cyl? I have another option for a 6 cyl and transmission but I don't want to buy the entire set if I do not need to. Thoughts?

darrell 08-08-2018 01:19 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

you need a bellhousing for the 6.flywheel will fit.you dont need to change tranny.if the motor isnt out of a truck you will need the front mount.

Herman Munster 08-08-2018 04:44 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

You might need a different radiator and a different header pipe for the exhaust. The transmission will fit many different bell housings. You should keep the clutch and disk from your old V8. It should fit the 6 flywheel. You will need to check the pilot bearing from the 6 to see if it will match the input shaft on your transmission so you don't have any grief during installation.
I understand you don't know much about the V8's used in these trucks but any any Ford Y-block will work in your truck and the 292 is the most common. They were available all the way through 1964.
I would look a for a good used one or even a rebuilt one someone is selling. With a little time and patience I'm sure you could find a good one for a reasonable price.

40 Deluxe 08-08-2018 05:54 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

As mentioned, you will need a 6 cyl. truck bellhousing (I'm quite sure a car one won't work) and likely radiator. Since the six is a longer engine, the radiator may mount in a different location or use a different shroud. The truck front engine mount as well, and throttle linkage for the six. And wiring harness. And exhaust. If I remember right, the V8 exhaust system is on the right side of the truck, and the six exhaust is on the left. Do the sixes you found have distributor, manifolds, carburetor, starter and misc. brackets?
Which Y block is in your F100? It could be anything after 64 years! A 239, 254, 272, 292, or 312. All will interchange. Which six are you looking at? A 215 or a 223? Or maybe the rare big truck 262?

dmsfrr 08-08-2018 06:23 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tquigley (Post 1660702)
The Y block I have needs a total overhaul. Many rebuild parts are unavailable. . . .

If it's a '54 engine I was told the same thing. If it's '55 or newer parts are not too hard to get.
A machine shop in your area familiar with Y-blocks may be hard to find. Sit down first if you ask them for a rebuild price estimate.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe (Post 1660825)
. . . . Which Y block is in your F100? It could be anything after 64 years! A 239, 254, 272, 292, or 312. . . .

Find the '6015' engine block casting number and look it up on this chart, there are photos of where to find it...
http://www.ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm

If the truck has a manual transmission I'll guess the V8 vs. straight 6 clutch linkage is different too.

.

KULTULZ 08-08-2018 06:47 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

To put it bluntly, you need a donor or source vehicle. Chasing parts will be a problem.

paul2748 08-08-2018 08:29 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

KULTULZ is right. There are a lot of little parts to source for such a swap and a lot of them are probably unobtainable. Your best bet is to get a parts truck with the 6 cylinderr setup


The other recommendations for a 292 is the best way to go. Parts are readily available and the swap is a no brainer.

Daves55Sedan 08-08-2018 10:24 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

In those days, it was not unusual to see a 223 cu in I-block 6cyl engine in trucks with manual transmission.
1954/55/56 223 truck engines would have been nearly identical.
Y-block bellhousings will not mount to the 6 cyl engine. The 6 cyl has a smaller bellhousing clutch and flywheel than the Y-block.
You cannot use a bellhousing from a car on a pickup truck because the truck bellhousing has tabs in the casting for transmission mounting to the truck frame.
But if it was me, I would stick with the Y-block. The '54 F100 would have had a 239 Y-block which is an animal all its own and not many interchangeable parts with later Y-blocks. But 272, 292 or 312 Y-blocks have many interchangeable parts and lots more availability of replacement parts.
Not sure if a 239 bellhousing will fit a later Y-block though???
Exhaust is run on the opposite frame rail if swapping from a V8 to a 6cyl and a different exhaust header will need to be made. Some clutch linkage may need to be re-worked. Carburator linkage will need to be swapped from the 6cyl. You will need to transition to a smaller intake hose size for the radiator somehow with a reducer or swap to a 6cyl radiator.

40 Deluxe 08-09-2018 12:12 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan (Post 1660945)
In those days, it was not unusual to see a 223 cu in I-block 6cyl engine in trucks with manual transmission.
1954/55/56 223 truck engines would have been nearly identical.
Y-block bellhousings will not mount to the 6 cyl engine. The 6 cyl has a smaller bellhousing clutch and flywheel than the Y-block.
You cannot use a bellhousing from a car on a pickup truck because the truck bellhousing has tabs in the casting for transmission mounting to the truck frame.
But if it was me, I would stick with the Y-block. The '54 F100 would have had a 239 Y-block which is an animal all its own and not many interchangeable parts with later Y-blocks. But 272, 292 or 312 Y-blocks have many interchangeable parts and lots more availability of replacement parts.
Not sure if a 239 bellhousing will fit a later Y-block though???
Exhaust is run on the opposite frame rail if swapping from a V8 to a 6cyl and a different exhaust header will need to be made. Some clutch linkage may need to be re-worked. Carburator linkage will need to be swapped from the 6cyl. You will need to transition to a smaller intake hose size for the radiator somehow with a reducer or swap to a 6cyl radiator.

The 239 bellhousing does bolt to a later Y-block. I had a '54 car that I bolted a '56 292 into.

JeffB2 08-09-2018 02:26 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

More budget friendly in the long run is swap to a 302/5.0 and AOD transmission you would need this: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Small...waAtXNEALw_wcB And this: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/1953-...ount,1174.html You would find parts anywhere and gain about 6 MPG on the highway.

MMB 08-09-2018 05:04 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

Odd man out here, I prefer the 215/223 over any Y-block. The 6 cylinder truck bellhousing is 6 cylinder only and different 3 speed light duty and BW overdrive versus 4 speed. You will need to remove the front y block frame crossmember and source the 6 cylinder mount. The exhaust on both is on the right side of the truck but the generator location varies side to side. Obviously, your truck so your call.

poolplayer1 08-09-2018 09:17 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

My 55 ford station wagon origionaly had a V8 272 when I first got it.Had a standard 3 speed tranny on it.The 272 was in bad shape,knocking real bad. My next door neighbor worked for one of the best reputable garages here in town and told me that he had just rebuilt a 302 completely.He said everything was new other than the block. I talked to a friend of mine that worked for a transmission shop here in town.He said he had a C4 and that his boss had just gone tru it completely. I went ahead and bought the C4,the 302 from my neighbor,and put them both on my wagon. We had to make few minor changes but at the end,it worked great.Its been a good little cruiser,other than the problem I am having now with the radiator. So,all in all,i would also recommend a 302 with an automatic tranny.
Just my opinion.
Mando

Daves55Sedan 08-09-2018 11:48 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMB (Post 1661271)
Odd man out here, I prefer the 215/223 over any Y-block.

Yeah, a 223 is fine as long as you don't need to get on a 70mph highway via a short, uphill entrance ramp (taking your life in your own hands).


Quote:

Originally Posted by MMB (Post 1661271)
The exhaust on both is on the right side of the truck.

True, the single exhaust Y-block has the exhaust header outlet on the right (passenger) side. But the 215's and 223's have the exhaust manifold on the driver side. I don't know if the factory crossed the exhaust header under the oil pan to the right side on trucks, but on cars the exhaust ran straight down on the left side.



Quote:

Originally Posted by MMB (Post 1661271)
but the generator location varies side to side.

I had a 215 years ago and still own two 223's (one is a '55 and the other is a '58). All have the generator in the same place at the lower left front. There is no bosses in the castings to allow the generator to be mounted on the right side (unless they modified the block casting in later years).
If the truck is a 1954, you wouldn't want a 215 because it had the motor mounts in a different location than the 223. You should not need to do any frame modifications for the motor mounts if you swapped to a 223.


I'm not familiar with the '54/55/56 truck frames and wonder if you might need a rear sump oil pan to clear the truck frame crossover pipe.
Another consideration is that if swapping to a 6cyl, you might be forced to get a radiator for a 6cyl because the side mounting brackets may be different positioning the radiator more forward. This was done on the car models because the 6cyl engine block is longer than the Y-block. Plus you do have the mismatched radiator hose sizes to think about too, which would be cleared up if you got a 6cyl radiator.

darrell 08-10-2018 10:44 AM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

the rad has the bottom hose on the opposite side but you just run them across and join them.it was done all the time.its really an easy swap.

Herman Munster 08-10-2018 11:58 AM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

I've never really liked 6 cylinder engines because how most sound. I've also always associated them with very old people and their slow driving even though I'm getting close to that group.
Give me a V8 anytime.

dmsfrr 08-10-2018 12:37 PM

Re: 1954 engine swap 8 cyl to 6 cyl
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan (Post 1661410)
. . .
I'm not familiar with the '54/55/56 truck frames and wonder if you might need a rear sump oil pan to clear the truck frame crossover pipe.
. . .

Yes, the Y-block engines in Lt trucks used a rear sump pan. Not sure about the 6cyl, but it may have had one also?
In a 'full-sized' car the Y-block engine had a front sump pan.

.


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