didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

I messed up installing my cylinder heads. Did not know you need to use a non hardening Permatex Thread Sealant on studs. Well you guest, it started leaking out of bolts about 2 hours after adding antifreeze coolant. I drained coolant but am concerned the coolant may have made its way into the cylinders themselves. I used copper gaskets with permatex copper seal spay on booth sides of gasket, two coats. Since I have to take all the nuts off and reinstall with sealant should I take the heads off and check the cylinders? Will this destroy the copper gaskets as the copper spray may stick and tear the gaskets apart? I don't want to spend another 120 on new gaskets for my newbie mistake if it is not necessary.



Regards


Mentally challenged Randy

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

...

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

Randy,
I can tell you that while the use of thread sealant would have been prudent, I would not fear. I am guessing your are getting leakage at the head nuts. Yes?
If so, what you are experiencing is what even the most seasoned flatty rebuilder encounters with frequency.

I'd suggest two things before removing studs and / or heads.

One: run the engine up to operating temperature a total of three times. In between each cooling down period, properly torque the heads again.

Two: introduce an aluminum powder sealer to the cooling system. Use the instructed amount for your coolant system's capacity and run the engine as the directions dictate.


You will most likely be amazed in how well the studs seal.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

Kube,


Thanks for your help. "One: run the engine up to operating temperature a total of three times. In between each cooling down period, properly torque the heads again."


So to get the engine up to operating temperature you need coolant in the block? If so, I add aluminum powder when replacing the coolant and run three times? I assume coolant will be slowly leaking out the nuts on the bolts as I go through the stepped procedure. I incorrectly said I have bolts but I have studs with nuts. Could it hurt to also use Pete's advice first before preforming your fix? When I get help from Senior members I try and take all advice.


I don't know what I would do without the help of Ford Barn and its followers!

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

I would just use water while doing this. Leave the anti-freeze out. Put the powder in after the 3 runs.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

The last time I did a flathead rebuild and head gaskets was in the 1950's and things are not so sharp in my mind. Regarding head gaskets, I think I've seen some forum members say they use grease on the head gaskets instead of a "sealer" type compound. Is grease an option for the head gaskets ? Or maybe the reference I saw was for different types of gaskets.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

Regarding the copper head gaskets; no worry there if you were to remove the heads. Coppercoat isn't going to pull them apart.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

After reading about it on this and other forums, I used regular grease on the head gaskets of my last two builds with no leaks or other problems. I no longer use sealer on the gaskets, but do use the Permatex thread sealer on the headbolts. I have been reading that there might be something better, but I already have the Permatex and have never had a problem.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

[QUOTE=RandyMettler;1716636]Kube,


Thanks for your help. "One: run the engine up to operating temperature a total of three times. In between each cooling down period, properly torque the heads again."


So to get the engine up to operating temperature you need coolant in the block? If so, I add aluminum powder when replacing the coolant and run three times? I assume coolant will be slowly leaking out the nuts on the bolts as I go through the stepped procedure. I incorrectly said I have bolts but I have studs with nuts. Could it hurt to also use Pete's advice first before preforming your fix? When I get help from Senior members I try and take all advice.
Randy, Yes, run it three times before doing anything else (like adding sealant) as Pete and I have advised. Once you've run it up to temp (yes, with coolant) and torqued (once cooled back down), THEN add the sealant. It won't hurt anything and stays in motion unless it is needed at a leak point.

Many guys fear clogging issues with sealant. This doesn't happen with the aluminum powder sealers.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

Randy,

I have built a few flathead V8's over the years. I experience this problem to a degree with every one. I would first use Kube's method. What you have going on is normal so don't panic.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

Thanks again for all your help.

Any thoughts on bumping up the nut torque from 40 to 50 or 55 foot pounds?
My block is a 8BA

Just a thought, I torqued all the nuts on the offy's aluminum heads to 40 foot pounds as per Vanpelts tune up info. When I first removed the heads the nuts seemed to be torqued down much tighter than 40 pounds. It could have been due to the amount of time since last installed. I am tempted to re-torque to 50 or 55 but fear that may stress the block and could crack it. The heads were not leaking before I removed them, so leaks are not from warped heads. I took them off to check valve clearance.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

If worried about leaks around the nuts, "tweak" each one to make sure tight before following above mentioned method of retorquing 3 times. FWIW

Are there washers under the nuts??
Paul in CT

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

I personally would not exceed 45# with aluminum heads.
Tightening them down beyond that won't do your leakage issue any good.
As has been asked and as yet unanswered, "do you have washers beneath the nuts"? If not, you need them...

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

Reading thru this thread caused me to realize I over-torqued the head bolts on my 8BA aluminum heads. several yrs ago when I was seeing coolant seepage at a couple of the head bolts. I looked up the spec and went with 65 to 70 ft lbs. Never thought about it again til now seeing lower torque recommendations for aluminum heads. Probably at this point it would do more harm than good to loosen one at a time and re-torque to lower range for aluminum heads?

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

IF there was any damage done by over torqueing your heads, well, it's already been done.
I would not, under any circumstance, loosen them now.
If and when you must remove a head, I'd suggest you have it checked for "trueness" prior to reinstalling it.
And, no way would I even consider reusing the gaskets. Of course, I'd never reuse one anyway...

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

1931 Flamingo and Kube,


Thanks for the questions. Yes, I have nice thick washers under the nuts. And Kube, if you were in this situation you would not reinstall your heads if the gaskets and copper coats look good? Instead buy new ones? I am going to use the tread sealer under, over the washers and around the stud that stick out of the cylinder head. If I coat anything lower than that on the studs, I fear It will be near impossible to get the heads off in the future. I have never used the sealer and don't know if it sets up like silicone or is more like a thick water resistant grease. I'll see tomorrow when I buy some.
Thanks to your input, now I am not going to torque beyond 40. If I still have leaks, I will try the powder aluminum. My only reason for not going that route first is tube videos tend to swing toward that as a temp fix.



Regards, and thanks for all your input and time.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

There would be no reason to do what you are considering, it would accomplish nothing and make a mess. If the coolant sealant and heat cycles and re-torque doesn't work, you can remove the studs one at a time and seal the threads when you reinstall them. The thread sealant needs to be between the stud threads and the block threads. If there is any concern about the head gasket itself not sealing do a leak down test and see what it shows.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

"There would be no reason to do what you are considering"


Right on, that's exactly why I posted the last comment. I'm not really sure how the thread sealant would fix the leaks. I have threaded studs not head bolts. I don't even know if I could get the studs out of the block without ruining them and possible the block. I think they are cemented in. Unless I am mistaken, the permitex will not do a whole lot. For it to work, you need the threads to thread into something other than just the nuts at the top of the cylinder heads. That's why I explained what I planned on doing. I was hoping for input.

I have done tube research on the aluminum powder and it seams it has the potential of creating a mess inside the radiator. In my case my aluminum radiator cost more than 1000 dollars and is brand new. I'm not sure if my research on the aluminum powder is correct information, but am still looking for the best options. One guy sectioned an old heater core that had the powder run through it an it looked like clay had been shoved into the cooling tubes.


A final note. I didn't mention that I have the small block cracks running in the thin areas between some of the head bolts and the water jacket holes.



Thanks JSeery

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

Your first post said you didn’t know to use thread sealant......your last post you state you think the studs are “cemented” in ?????.....the sealant goes on the stud to block area.....not on the washer/nut area.....I don’t know, maybe I’m confused now?....Mark
P.S. if your block has those small cracks...all the more reason to not over-torque.

Re: didn't use Permatex Thread Sealant when installing heads
 

"Are there washers under the nuts??"