3 speed OD question
 

been looking for a OD for a 1950 long time, as luck $200 complete locally.
Ok its on the floor, I marked input shaft and tail shaft with paint. I figured out the cable lever - left is direct and to the right is od. My Ford shop book not really help for wiring thats Nasa. I figured the pass side what it is speedomter control 28 or so MPH. Now the solonid on the left, whats that do? I power it up with 6vts it sparks but don't do anything. Try do get that out no way. I think thats something to do with freewheeling? So, as I test on the bench, I am thinking I will use the cable and push the cable (gas pedal down) and release just like a truck (two speed axle) with out all those relays and gas pedal kick down switches. Question is what does the left solinoin do? does it lock out
free wheeling? Two wires on it, on one a dead spark & the other nothing.
The bench test; I find that i spin the marked input shaft, I have to put into neutral put lever on OD shift back to third I now am in OD...Read some have
a 3 way switch no good if my solinoid is bad solinoid $500 and 12Vts.
any ideas? sam

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

The lever behind the solenoid has nothing to do with shifting into overdrive other than to lock out the overdrive so it cannot shift in. The solenoid must be functional to shift to overdrive. Here is the overdrive user manual, maybe it will help you understand.

This is from a Studebaker site, but they are all the same operationally.
http://www.studebakerclubs.com/North.../Overdrive.pdf

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

Main relay on the firewall provides system power and control , big shift solenoid has activation coil and holding coil functions to shift into and hold in overdrive, governor on right side regulates allowable cut in speed for initial shift so it doesn't shift at too low a speed. Some have a lock out switch that keeps the system from activating any electrical components when the transmission is in the lock out phase. The floor switch is the kick down to take the transmission out of overdrive when passing and it's connected to the ignition coil to insure the engine gets enough hesitation during down shift for it to actually shift out of overdrive.

You can purchase overdrive wiring harnesses from several sources that can be used to set one of these units up. The kick down switch, main relay, and shift solenoid are available new but they aren't cheap.

Some folks hot wire the system with just an operating switch but this leaves it wide open for problems since there will be no safeties that are provided with the original system. Things can be damaged if you don't follow a normal operating pattern.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

Maybe you could find someone with a car that has a working overdrive and have them demonstrate its operation. Ford made a lot of them from 1949 through 1966 or '67 so you should be able to find one to check out. Just verify that the overdrive is operable and that the driver knows how to use it. For example, have him drive at 55 MPH in overdrive, and then show you how to pull out the 'lockout' knob. If he can't, you're talking to the wrong person.
If you can't find a Ford with overdrive, the same unit was used in Studebakers, '55 through mid-'60's Chevies, Hudsons and others.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

There is a ton of information on the internet regarding Bork Warner OD transmissions.

I think I read that you tried to remove the solenoid but couldn't, if so try turning it about 1/4 turn clockwise after removing the two screws. Good used working solenoids 6 or 12 volt seem to be hard to find, I've been trying to buy a couple of the 6 volt ones that don't work to see if I can rebuild them but so far I haven't found any for sale.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

Thanks everyone, I do know how to operate , I drove a 49 company car that drove like a
dream for 10yrs. My roadblock is the solonoid I put 6vt power to it - one wire just
sparks = no click or clunk (shouldn't it make a sound?) the other wire does nothing.
thanks 40coupe I read the manual now I am stuck because I have marked the input &
output shafts and put the cable lever toward the read I definatly have OD = lever to the
left shafts turn direct. So I "thought" I could put it in and out manually, guess not, but
it works on the shop floor manually. I'll see if I can take that solonoid apart and get
back. Sam

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

I can help you out but not til next week. There are two wires coming from that solenoid. One goest to ground and the other powers the solenoid. You need to ground it to the pos post and then touch the wire to negative. I think the #4 terminal is the one you want. The governor is on the other side and it is a permissive yo let the overdrive engage.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

Yes, it should "clunk", so perhaps you should bench test it. To remove the solenoid, unbolt the two bolts on the flange, pull gently and give the solenoid a quarter turn.

As you saw, there are two wires on the solenoid. One wire is for the power source and the other wire (you can ignore for now) is for momentarily killing the ignition circuit for the purpose of downshifting into "passing gear". It is NOT a ground wire, except for the fact that it grounds out the ignition coil when necessary. It's normal position is "open", so it will not react to a power source or a ground source. The solenoid is simply grounded through the case, so when you attach a power source to the right wire, and ground the case, the solenoid should throw. If it doesn't, you have a bad solenoid.

OK, so back to basics. The lever controlled by the cable has nothing to do with the gas pedal. It is a T-handle cable pull to enable/disable overdrive.
The speed control (called "governor") is what controls the OD relay, which in turn powers the big solenoid. The big solenoid upshifts and downshifts the OD gears.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

Perfect Mike I didn't know the 'dead' wire interupts the coil. Next question ? What turns
the solonoid on or is it always on until the cable is pushed then it clunks? Oh wait, now
it makes sense. The governor gets up to speed send a ground to the relay, relay shoots
power to the solonoid. By the way I don't care about the kick down sw. on the gas pedal,
cause I haven't kicked down any vehicle since I was 16yrs old. lol thanks sam
now I gotta find a relay, wiring no problem starting to sound pretty simple....

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

My suggestion would be to contact Chris at Shoebox-Central. He lives and breathes these cars and can provide your answers. I have one in my 52 and they work great when functioning properly. You should also go through the internals to be sure everything is working well inside.The Shop manual (Green Bible) has a good schematic of the o/d circuit.
Rob

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

You'll need a 6 volt 30 amp relay, triggered by ground, and rated for continuous duty. A momentary contact (horn) relay won't last a day and could possibly start a fire.

I agree about the kickdown---- if you look up the gear ratios you'll find that second overdrive is nearly the same ratio as third direct drive---- so manually downshifting gives you nearly the same result as the kickdown. I have electronic ignition that I was wary of grounding out, so I omitted the kickdown.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

I'm going to follow this thread because I too have a overdrive trans I want to put in my 50, everything I've read has been confusing, I would like to be able to activate the o.d. only after I'm in high gear. I am satisfied with how the car drives now except on the interstate, that's the only time I would use it.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

You're losing a lot of the benefits of overdrive if you don't use the kickdown. Say you've been running on the highway and slow to 35 through town. When you go to accelerate, you will be lugging the engine and will have very slow acceleration unless you downshift to second. It's a lot easier to just momentarily floor the gas pedal to kick out of overdrive, accelerate to highway speed, let off the gas momentarily and you're back in overdrive. Almost like an automatic!

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

If you only want overdrive on the interstate, just pull out the lockout cable knob (usually labeled "overdrive"). When you're up to speed, just push the handle in, let off the gas momentarily, and you're in overdrive. (Remember to push the handle in before letting off the gas.)

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

Sorry, but I think it's a bad idea to pull and push that cable with the car in motion.

Rather than mess with the cable, I installed a toggle switch to directly turn the solenoid off and on.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

You can lock it out at any speed as long as you know for sure it is not "in overdrive" when you make the attempt. When pushing the handle in, you can do it at any speed but I would avoid engaging it under rapid acceleration or deceleration.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

I agree it can be done, but I still think it's a bad habit. Some people treat that lever like an on/off switch. The default position should have OD enabled, and then only disabled for special circumstances. That's what it was designed to do.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

Well, once the trans is in overdrive, the cable cannot be pulled out so that's not a problem. Once you hit the kickdown and it goes back to direct drive you can pull the cable out to lock the trans in direct drive. This was recommended procedure in owner's manuals of the day for descending steep grades, for better engine braking. When approaching the downgrade, briefly floor the gas to kick down to direct drive, pull the cable out, then back off the gas. Actually, the only thing to avoid would be pulling the cable out ('lockout' position) when freewheeling (foot off the gas at any speed below 27 MPH).
Your toggle switch may cause some problems. When you're running at highway speed with the switch off, the trans will freewheel whenever the accelerator is released. So you will have absolutely zero engine braking!
If you forget to turn the switch off when coming to a stop on an uphill grade, the trans is still in overdrive and will not, cannot, roll backward. The overdrive planetary gears are such that they physically cannot turn backward when in overdrive mode (like in two gears at once). This puts a bind on the gears that they were not designed for. Could get expensive!
Also, if the car ahead of you rolls back, you cannot get out of the way! The shift lever will not go into reverse. It is physically locked out by the lockout lever through internal linkage. (Ask me how I know!) I had a toggle switch too, until a car ahead rolled back into me. This, plus trying to start uphill from a stop sign in low overdrive convinced me it wasn't such a good idea.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

The cable is physically blocked from being able to pulled out while in overdrive. So unless you're strong enough to literally pull the cable apart no damage can be done.

Re: 3 speed OD question
 

It may help to remember that the 'lockout' handle/lever/knob/cable is purely mechanical in operation. It does nothing electrically; it is not connected to the overdrive wiring.
Also, remember that the reverse shift arm is connected to the lockout mechanism internally because if the overdrive is electrically engaged, (a short, maybe?) the car cannot move backward.
So every time you shift into reverse, you are doing the same thing the lockout cable does when you pull it out.
One of the special circumstances you mention would be engine braking on a steep downhill. The owner's manual didn't tell you to stop to pull out the lockout cable. It said to hit the kickdown switch and immediately pull the cable out, then back off the gas for engine braking as soon as the trans shifted back to direct drive. Another circumstance would be trailer towing.