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derek costello 03-20-2020 08:49 AM

Timing gear oiling?
 

Has any body drilled that 030" or 060" hole in the 3/8" pipe plug behind the timing gear to aid in lubrication of the timing gears and the pressure point at the thrust face of the cam.?
I read in some Flathead source that this is necessary to help in oiling this area.
I found a hole in the end of the camshaft about 2" deep I would think this would be for oil supply to this area ? This is all on an 8BA block 1952 Mercury.
When I took the engine apart it seemed very dry in this timing gear cavity......
Derek

Bill OH 03-20-2020 09:32 AM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

Drilled and taped the top of the timing gear cover to receive the return line from the oil filter.
Quieted the timing gear noise.

rotorwrench 03-20-2020 09:34 AM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

The 59 series and earlier had the oil pressure relief valve outflow to oil the timing chest so they would be kind of wet. The 8BA has a different crankcase ventilation system and no relief valve in that area. The thrust of the cam is different as well. Oiling isn't as critical in there as it was in previous designs. If you alter the designed outflow anywhere in the system, it will also alter the oil pressure. As long as that port is open as designed, it will get the amount of oil the design intended. Ford was using the fiber gears too so they would run with less noise.

tubman 03-20-2020 10:36 AM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench (Post 1864060)
The 59 series and earlier had the oil pressure relief valve outflow to oil the timing chest so they would be kind of wet. The 8BA has a different crankcase ventilation system and no relief valve in that area. The thrust of the cam is different as well. Oiling isn't as critical in there as it was in previous designs. If you alter the designed outflow anywhere in the system, it will also alter the oil pressure. As long as that port is open as designed, it will get the amount of oil the design intended. Ford was using the fiber gears too so they would run with less noise.

Does this mean that those of us who are running aluminum timing gears in a 8BA (I have two) should consider something like this?

51 MERC-CT 03-20-2020 10:51 AM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman (Post 1864078)
Does this mean that those of us who are running aluminum timing gears in a 8BA (I have two) should consider something like this?

Don't believe there is any thrust on the aluminum gear other than gear to gear contact.

flatheadmurre 03-20-2020 11:40 AM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

8BA has a hole in the end of the cam for lubrication...goes from cambearing and lets oil out in camcover.

derek costello 03-20-2020 01:21 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

There is a thrust imposed by the cam in an 8BA series engine (all helical cut gears impose a side thrust), this thrust is pushing against the inside surface of the aluminum timing cover!
There is a cup shaped ring cast into the cover to resist this thrust, that same ring has a cut in the side of it to keep the oil at that area all the time! and yes indeed I am aware of the
drilling in the end of the cam (to lubricate this area). BUT I POSED this QUESTION to see if anybody has ALSO questioned the oiling shortage in this timing gear cavity ?????

flatheadmurre 03-20-2020 01:31 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

You want more oil between gears drill a few more holes through the aluminum gear.
There should be some in it letting oil go from inside gear out to teeths.

derek costello 03-20-2020 01:48 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

The aluminum timing gear (as everybody knows) is bolted to the front mounting face of the camshaft! There is NO oiling passages that come out of the side of the cam shaft into the gear. So drilling it would be redundant! Some aluminum gears have spokes and voids cast into them to allow oil mist to circulate. (This is for oil mist that may splash up from the pan under hard braking!) So far there has not been any body that has seen a shortage of oil
in this area (I mean dry)!

51 MERC-CT 03-20-2020 01:53 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

The continuously running oil that comes out of the end of the cam runs down and sloshes onto the oil slinger on the crankshaft that throws it into the gears and anything else in the way.
Just wonder after millions of miles in vehicles over the years without any issues know to me, how now, this area needs attention.

flatheadmurre 03-20-2020 01:57 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek costello (Post 1864154)
The aluminum timing gear (as everybody knows) is bolted to the front mounting face of the camshaft! There is NO oiling passages that come out of the side of the cam shaft into the gear. So drilling it would be redundant! Some aluminum gears have spokes and voids cast into them to allow oil mist to circulate. (This is for oil mist that may splash up from the pan under hard braking!) So far there has not been any body that has seen a shortage of oil
in this area (I mean dry)!

Oil goes out the front of cam against front cover, splashes down on inside of aluminum timing gear.
From inside of timing gear by gravity through the drilled holes and out to the teeths.

flatheadmurre 03-20-2020 02:05 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

1 Attachment(s)
There´s a hole drilled at every other from start...drill all of them and you double oiling,
That notch in the thrust bearing in the front cover is there for a reason...directing the oil coming out the camshaft down onto the gear.

flatjack9 03-20-2020 02:06 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

A non problem.

Ideucev8 03-20-2020 02:07 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

I have heard of this been done on 8BAs when using the early timing gears as they change the thrust to against the block face. With the 8BA not getting oil to this area like the early blocks get from the little flat on the relief vale plunger.

Ronnieroadster 03-20-2020 02:38 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ideucev8 (Post 1864168)
I have heard of this been done on 8BAs when using the early timing gears as they change the thrust to against the block face. With the 8BA not getting oil to this area like the early blocks get from the little flat on the relief vale plunger.

While the early cam gear tooth pitch will in effect put the thrust towards the block this changes once the oil idler gear comes into the equation driving the oil pump gear. I have found the early cam gear will still push forward. Look at any early front cover and you will see the wear pattern from the cam gear being thrust forward.
So to answer the original post question additional oiling on the block face its a waste of time and not needed. The 8BA cam design already has the proper oiling provision making no difference if the cam gear is any early late type since both types of gears put the thrust forward. I have spend a lot of time dissecting the Flathead Ford oiling system as i increased the engines performance {HP} way beyond its original design. Cam gear oiling is more than adaquit to well over 6 times the stock HP.
Ronnieroadster

tubman 03-20-2020 03:17 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

Thanks, "flatjack9" and Ronnieroadster".

I can now sleep easily at night!

richard crow 03-20-2020 03:30 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

now after 20,000,000 flat heads the cam gear lub system is no good i wounder if ford will have a recall

tubman 03-20-2020 03:50 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard crow (Post 1864197)
now after 20,000,000 flat heads the cam gear lub system is no good i wounder if ford will have a recall

Granted, the Ford engineers were correct in their design, but you have to realize that I was asking about a change that is a modification to their original design. I expected the response I got, which was that it is not necessary, but I still believe it was a valid question.

Pete 03-20-2020 03:52 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

...

flatheadmurre 03-20-2020 03:57 PM

Re: Timing gear oiling?
 

Fords engineers wasn´t always driven by making the best long lasting product...cost...production effiecency and other factors weighed in to...they where in it to make money.
So sometimes you can make an adjustment to the original design that is good.
But you have to understand the original design first...and figure out what the final goal for the modification is....then evaluate if it is worth it...


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