Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

I have a 1956 Thunderbird. What is the maximum safe operating temperature?

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

Too many variables. I used to think 190 was hot but my new pickup operates at 205.

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

If it's not boiling you're good to go.

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

Here is a basic TUTORIAL FORD BIRD COOLING SYSTEM OVERHEATING -

https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/1955...d-overheating/

It is all basic knowledge/practice and there are more factors than given above.

The only thing I disagree with in the TECH PAPER is the use of a pusher electric fan. The assembly blocks what little outside air that is able to be drawn into the radiator.

This with WP PULLEY SIZE and WP VOLUTE poor design.

The complete system (IMO) must be upgraded to modern standards along with the ability to not make the changes noticeable when the hood is opened.

If one hangs aftermarket air, most of the obvious visible giveaways are mute as it is not a dedicated restoration or survivor.

As for true coolant temperature(s), a QUALITY MECHANICAL TEMP GAUGE needs to be mounted and watched to see what actually is happening while driving. This is a test gauge only and can be taped to the WS while the car is operated under different conditions and recording the readings (true oil pressure readings are derived with the same method).


EDIT - INSERT


AUTO METER - https://www.autometer.com/blog/faq-p...ge-reads-high/


There has to be a service somewhere that can properly curve a LOAD-O-MATIC DIST. If you are set on keeping it, it has to operate correctly.


https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/crac...aust-manifold/


This video should explain to all the need for this spacer along with a smaller OD WP PULLEY. The author states there is no water flow below 750 RPM and most engines idle @ approx. 650 RPM. This spacer, along with a re-designed WP impeller and modifications to the timing cover should overcome (IMO) any overheating conditions assuming the complete system is in good operating condition.

https://vimeo.com/263049673


FURTHER RANTING -

Another consideration is WP speed. The 1955 and early 1956 BIRD used a 6.94” O.D. PULLEY with a 17” DIA 4-BLADE FAN (forget the original 3-BLADE FAN unless you want CONCOURS CORRECT).

It seems engineering went to a larger 18” FAN mid-1956/57. The WP PULLEY DIA was also increased to 7.44' O.D. (apparently they were thinking of possible over-cooling) .

It seems to me that the early WP PULLEY (6.94" O.D.) coupled with the later 18” FAN (1955 radiator shroud different from 56-57) in addition to a redesigned WP SPACER (PARAGON A-432) and engine front cover (WP volute clean up) coupled with a sound cooling system (full flow radiator and full-flow thermostat) should give the desired performance.

This would also alleviate (IMO) the different length fan spacers needed (blade pitch) and possible offset belt drive using other than original BIRD designed parts/systems.

The WP PULLEY (6.94" O.D. - B5S 8509-B) is available repro (but
expensive).

6-INCH WP PULLEY - CASCO 8509S (5.94in O.D.)


HOSE – WP BYPASS (8597) – Cut From Bulk Hose FDA 18472-A (9/16") – MPC


SUMMATION -

RIVETED BLADE FLEX FANS (incl OEM) are dangerous. Fan clutch drives can fail (bearing and/or seal) and put a burden on the WP bearing.

One has to bite the bullet and stop searching for stop-gap repair methods. FORD screwed-up and it is up to the present owner to overcome those short comings.


SOURCE - https://www.classictbird.com/pdf/Thu...htening-17.pdf

AND YET ANOTHER - :rolleyes:

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

My '60 292 runs at mid gauge with a 180 thermo, all the time regardless of ambient temp.

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

It will or will be a cause of overheating.

If it is actually leaking, you are losing coolant volume. If not caught and repaired (hopefully before catastrophic failure), as the system cools and the coolant contracts, it will draw outside air into the system, leading to aeration of the coolant and possible steam pockets.

The BY-PASS HOSE is 9/16" I.D. and worm clamps cut into and damages the hose itself, especially if one cranks down on it trying to seal 5/8" hose to a 9/16" tube..

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

Bypass tube on a T-Bird thermostat housing is 5/8 inch.
.

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

FOMOCO says 9/16".

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1659632719

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...2&d=1659632719

Now whom am I going to believe? If 5/8" is used you have to over torque the clamps leading to material failure/leakage.

This is one reason there are so many problems, incorrect info and usage.

(Center your tape or use a machinist metal rule.)

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

I've got 5 or 6 of these housings including 1 new reproduction. The used originals are presumably from all three years, they have slight differences... but the bypass tubes are all the same outside diameter.
If a 9/16 hose would fit, it would be tight. I've never tried.

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

Does a 5/8" seem loose when putting on?

This thread has 3,000 hits. Everything you read regarding a BIRD describes overheating problems. No one (after all of these years) has put all of this together, just bits and pieces.

Amazing to me ...

Not yelling at you ... ;)

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

I don't have any new-ish 5/8 hose to give it a try.

But I do have loose parts to compare to each other. The two metal tubes for the short bypass hose are not smaller in diameter, they are the same size as the heater hose fittings.
Photo 1. Thermostat housing & heater core tubing.
Photo 2. Thermostat housing & angled water pump heater hose pipe.
Photo 3. Thermostat housing & bypass hose T shaped fitting

Overheating '55/'57 T-Birds... my two cents worth, in a rough order of importance....
Photo 4. Due to previously mentioned poor coolant flow the block gets clogged with rust debris very easily.
It can be difficult to remove completely without hot-tanking the block and some manual labor.

Clogged radiator. See photo in previous post #4 above.

A poorly designed water pump spacer. The Ames A-432 spacer is a vast improvement.
At this link... https://thunderbird.us/

Timing advance shortcomings. Failed vacuum canisters on the '55 and '56 distributors and points breaker plates that get stuck, '55 thru '57.

A heat riser valve stuck closed. It will overheat the intake manifold and carburetor... and choke off the exhaust flow from the right/passenger side of the engine.

Poor airflow under the hood. There are 4 splash shields that can be removed for some improvement if the car isn't driven in wet conditions.

And the whole list of things at the first link in post #4 above.

An inaccurate Temperature gauge. After all these years it is very common for the old dash gauge to display incorrectly. A hand-held laser Temp gauge will be helpful.
Does anyone want to try answering this?
Just to start the conversation I'll go with a circulating coolant temperature of 212.

.

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

I'll go with 233F., the boiling temperature of pure water with a 7 pound rad cap. A mix of coolant with the water will add several degrees to that depending on the mix ratio. A 15 pound cap would increase the water boiling point to 245.

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

SOURCE - https://piketransit.com/average-coolant-temp/

Without a certified MECHANICAL WATER TEMP TEST GAUGE, it is all a guessing game.

Also, think of it this way. It is like your home water heater. The higher the set temp, more of suspended particulates will fall out of suspension in the water and settle at the bottom and begin to eat the tank lining. Same as the sediments you see in the cooling jackets.

DO NOT use tap water to either flush or fill. At the very minimum, distilled. One reason pre-mix coolant is used on modern cars.

A modern engine (FYB) needs to see a minimum of a 180 degrees (thermostat) to have oil detergents/dispersants work properly and to eliminate any moisture in the crankcase.

Low operating temp also cause a rich condition in fuel delivery and that thins the oil.

It's as simple as that.

Re: Maximum acceptable temperature for 292 Y-block
 

Here's another little known factoid. Originally, these by-pass hoses (8597) were sold separate, the FORD/MERC having one length, BIRD another. They were of a thicker reinforced hose.

At some point, the bean counters dropped the assembly hoses and called for cutting from bulk heater hose roll or service replacement.

Can you slide a 9/16in open end (or 5/8in) over the housing nipple and/or the connector on the WP? If you ever have the hoses off the heater core, the same measurement?

This will solve the problem hopefully.