Cracked Block
 

After changing a leaking and worn out water pump I noticed a wet spot under the water pump. Looks like the engine block has been let freeze at some point and cracked about a 3 inch long crack. It just seeps like you see around the head gaskets on some A engines but I'm sure will be a problem when I finally get on the road for any distance. Since I don't know if the engine is a worn out junker yet I've decided to try and JB Weld the crack. I figure since there is no pressure and I prep this correctly it should work and if it doesn't I can always go the distance and have it brazed or lock-stitched.

I've drained the coolant and removed the radiator so I could get to the crack. I've used a dremel to V the crack and expose clean metal around so the epoxy has something to stick to. I will drill at each end to stop further cracking. Should I tap those holes and put screws in? I've found another product similar to JB Weld and they even have a video on repairing an engine block. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AT8f9J4_E


I read I believe a member here who said they have done this but used a vacuum and super glue before the JB Weld. Sounds reasonable to me and like a good idea but I don't know if there are any chemical reactions of the glue, antifreeze and the JB Weld?

I know some of you will say don't try this and I get that but I'm not willing to throw much capitol at this at the moment. I think I'm going to go for it and if it works or fails I'll post about it. You can point and say I told you so then. I believe it's all in the preparation but we will see.

Opinions anyway ???? :)

Re: Cracked Block
 

smear it with epoxy, maby in 5-10years you will have to do it again

Re: Cracked Block
 

I did it on a Model T head with a nasty crack. Worked great. After it was well cured I refilled it, then when that was well cured I filed and sanded it smooth, then paint. Never leaked, couldn't tell there had ever been a crack. You may want to carefully inspect the rest of the block, frost cracks often times show up along the side of the engine. I used the original JB weld, the quick type doesn't seem quite as good. make sure you do a good job of mixing it. Sounds like your prep is good.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Kurt, Does "epoxy" mean JB Weld or something else?

Re: Cracked Block
 

JB Weld was developed for the Army specifically for fixing cracked cast iron engines. It's been used for this purpose on millions of engines with very good success.

Re: Cracked Block
 

My car is gradually losing the joy that I had. I'm going from one repair to the next. And that for a 35,000 "Top Show Car". In this year I spent almost 4000 for spare parts.

My big frustration is that today I wanted to replace the valve cover after the timing gear renewed and see that suddenly cooling water in the valve chamber is high. Where the fine crack comes from is unclear.

Comparable unfortunately with the theme starter.

Re: Cracked Block
 

History, guten Abend you depressed suffering comrade!

I've made the experience that epoxy resins are very resistant to engine oil, but not against antyfreese (Glysantin). Because these are polyglycols that dissolve plastics.

The compromise solution would be to use only water with corrosion protection and drain it in winter.


I try it.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Rest assured, if nothing else works, it can be saved by TIG welding.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Yes you can drill the ends of the crack and push soft wire into the holes & 'peen' it in place with a tiny hammer. Or tap and screw small machine screws in it. Don't drive them in too hard.

I've always wanted to try making a dovetail style cut in the cracks of a water jacket and put tiny holes either side, and solder in some white metal. Never have & hope i never have to.

This video, rough, but it worked well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er0BZVfzyqk

Re: Cracked Block
 

History:
That's a common place for it to crack from ice damage, I would also look on drivers side of block as well. It can be fixed permenantly through metal stitching.
https://www.jandm-machine.com/metalStitching.html

Re: Cracked Block
 

Hello Werner:
That is stress crack we see often , It also can be repaired by metal stitching.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Good evening together,

I'm unlucky! After sanding the crack in the engine block today, I've seen that it's more than 4 inches long. From the back in the 90° bend to the front to the outlet channel.

Therefore JB Weld can not help, because the crack runs between the two outlet holes and gets very hot.

I am at a loss as to whether this can be welded. "Stichin '" - I've looked at -, that I not useable because of the unfavorable surface curvature.

Re: Cracked Block
 

This guy migs a cast iron pan. I havent tried this yet but will next time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS8OLJ07emg

Re: Cracked Block
 

In the old days, we used "Water Glass". Sodium Silicate, you can buy it at a pharmacy. It was an egg preservative. You start up the A, let it warm up good. Then put 4oz of water glass in radiator. Put cap on and drive it. What happens is once the water glass hits air (crack) it hardens up. Been using it on old cars and tractors for years. Sounds Hoaky, but it works......

Re: Cracked Block
 

What rod do you use to tig weld cast iron?

Re: Cracked Block
 

ER70.
If you need more info, email me.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Hallo and good evening,



in my engine block, the now 5 inch long crack is very deep too into the material. I try to weld this into a special TIG company. Maybe with success.

Does anyone know what that iron ore cast material it was at the building time?



And, by the way: Is there something important, which has to be considered before I lift the engine?



I thank you in advance!

Re: Cracked Block
 

A (good) welder can fix that crack. Amateurs usually cannot.

Re: Cracked Block
 

at the ends of the crack drill a small hole then hammer in a piece of sorda now get a can of zotight follow instructions your problem is over

Re: Cracked Block
 

Good moning Richard,


please tell me, what is "sorda", what is "zotight"?


Thanks.

Re: Cracked Block
 

I'm not sure on the "sorda" maybe it's solder?? "Zotight" is "Zo-tite" and by reading the description seems to be an awesome product if true.

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/zo-...cks-p2514.aspx

Re: Cracked Block
 

Don't tell the new car manufacturers this, they will have to stop using all those plastic parts in newer engines.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Miracles happens from time to time!

That was too inaccurately described by me/ wrong translation. I meant with "plastic" two components epoxy glue like JB Weld etc.

Re: Cracked Block
 

The Car Talk guys used to mention a product called Porter Seal when discussing crack repairs. Anyone ever use it/ is it still made?

Re: Cracked Block
 

I called yesterday for pricing on the lock-n-stitch product and was told it would be $250-$300 just for the kit. I may take it and get it welded considering that price. Like I said, the engine is a mystery at this point that may be worn out. It sounds like it's going to come apart but after I cleaned the spark plugs it sounds like a new engine.

My crack looks exactly like the one posted by j and m machine except mine was not as spread open. Mine was hard to see and was only seeping but same shape and spot. I'm in no hurry so I'll think on it for awhile and decide. I'm not trying to be cheap but I do want it FIXED/REPAIRED the cheapest I can get by with.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Good evening,

"Stiching" is not possible within the tunnel-shaped valve chamber. -

Today I've milled a 1/4" wide and 1/5" deep V-suture along the crack, and tomorrow a friend dentist drills the crack at the ends with 1/24 " very deep.

Then the engine is going to a specialized welding company on Monday.

I will report.

Re: Cracked Block
 

I guess you didn't see the pictures I had posted to you regarding crack in same area. it is repairable if you could find someone in Germany to do so.
I hope they know how to preheat the block and use proper welding material?
If not done properly you will have a bigger crack than what you've started with.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Halo Werner! Wie Gehts? Tell me too! The closest thing to "Sorda" I know, is the contraction "sorta" which is a facetious way of saying "Sort of". I'm sorry about your engine block, but we've been welding or stitching blocks for a long time and we've almost perfected it. 90 Year old Model A blocks are prone towards cracking. There is a possibility that the German G28 blocks do not crack so easily, Also, the Russian GAZ. You might look into importing a Russian GAZ, model B (later engine, same block, 50 pferd starke, HP) These engines were produced up into the 1950s and are available.
Terry

Re: Cracked Block
 

Well I took it to a welder and he told me it shouldn't be a problem as he was experienced in repairing cast. I believe he used a mig welder dedicated to flux core use. The Weld looked pretty good and he said he thought he had it. I paid him and took the car back to the shop and put the radiator on, was filling with anti freeze and it was leaking pretty bad. I drained it and took it back this morning. This time we plugged it and tried filling with water to only find it leaking again and again. His last try was with silver and a torch and it didn't work and actually caused a new crack to go laterally above the lower crack.


He did tig it also.

I'm not sure if he just didn't know what he was doing or just bad material to work with. My block may actually be ruined. I may try lock stitch or grind all the mess off and try JB Weld.

I really thought welding it was a safe way to go.

Can you use any screws or small bolts for lock stitching or is there something special about the lock stitch kits and bolts?

Any suggestions other than I told ya so's. :confused:

Re: Cracked Block
 

Good morning History, my godness!

History, is your welder a specialist in such large blocks? Have you been told that the ends of the crack need to be drilled thin so it can not to break any further? Was the crack course 1/4" deep and wide milled out?

The welding line must always be very short. 1 inch then 15 minutes rest so that the block is not too hot on spot. Never weld along in one piece.

There is a simple test procedure for hairline cracks, we call it Red/White-Cracktest from the spray can.

I wish you great success!


(My engine is not finished yet from the welding factory.)

Re: Cracked Block
 

Werner, looking from my new perspective, I'd say the welder doesn't know what he's doing, he doesn't have a clue. I would have went with the lock stitch initially but thought the cost too much at the kit being $250 for enough to do a 3 inch crack. Guess that would have been a bargain now.

Not sure what I will do at this point, I have no idea if it can be saved. I explained to the welder that I wouldn't have brought it to him knowing it would eliminate any other options as I'm afraid it has. They do some pretty serious work so I thought I could trust his opinion. I'll deal with them with caution (If I ever deal with them again) with and only simple things (I thought this was simple:mad:).

My old welding friend passed away last year or we wouldn't be discussing this. He was very good and understood metal well, he was cautious but competent. I miss him for more reasons than his welding but his welding is missed.

Re: Cracked Block
 

I hope you have good luck with your engine. I have one that was cracked but with my eyesight I couldn't be sure where the crack was. Solution, I used an epoxy that is designed for marine use. They apparently repair cracked situations that go under water at times. After smearing the area where the crack was (good prep first) I used the waterglas mentioned above and the engine is saved for a while anyway. Jack

Re: Cracked Block
 

Sounds like some lock stitching & JB weld to finish is your next option.
Some lock stitching bolts i've seen online (But never used in real life, but i wouldn't mind seeing them in reality) had a thread profile cut like a saw tooth, except the steep part of the saw tooth pushed back over the trough of the valley of the thread. By using a tap with this same thread profile, the 'bolt' would actually clamp the 2 pieces of metal together to some degree.
Then there's the "drill several holes either side & drive in the purpose made 'key' method.

For what it's worth, i've used regular bolts in minor cracks. But it's not the preferred way. I make do with them for lack of better tooling.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Werner: I am very. sorry for the troubles and disappointments you are experiencing your car. You have been getting a lot of help here and I hope you get everything taken care of. You in post #17 asked about caution when lifting your engine if you have to . I am not one of the experienced and proven experts here, but I do not want you to lift the front of the engine when in the car without loosening the rear engine mounts. I would hate to hear that you'd cracked your flywheel housing. You have enough problems as it is. I wish you success and the reclaiming of your joy in your car.

Re: Cracked Block
 

This is the reason I posted the pictures. To Both Werner and yourself.
Everyone thinks the blocks are straightforward to weld, only way to do it properly would be to furnace weld it if you chose that route.
The metal stitching with the threaded pins we use is seamless and once done will never split open.
History your block is history as the only way to seal the crack now is to use some form of sealer on inside as well as out.
The rod that he used will surely keep cracking as it isn't same molecular expansion rate and cast iron will crack right next to the welds as you've found out.

http://www.jandm-machine.com/metalStitching.html


If you open this link and notice the second picture where they kept welding the block with nickel rod, it was cracking faster than they could weld it.
We had to cut out the welded area as it was shattered from the heat.
The heat from the weld also make the iron like glass so there's no way to drill and pin it now it has to be removed and a new piece installed.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Hallo,

today I got back the welded engine block. I hope thate the seam is tight.

It will take some time, but I will report.

Thank you all for hints!

Re: Cracked Block
 

Thanks for the update, Do you have a picture of the repair?

Re: Cracked Block
 

I have a block that was seeping, and after cleaning, could see it had been welded. I just cleaned it up and used JB Weld. Worked fine.

Re: Cracked Block
 

Hallo und guten Tag,

just made some pictures to shows the external work. The pinkish-white discoloration are residues from the final crack-tightness test.

I am currently a little ill, therefore I'l show the next step, when the seam is cleaned.

Re: Cracked Block
 

How much care and time did the failed welders take? I once welded a firing pin. You get one zap at a time. That takes patience. Not a lot of heat in one zap. Or a continous second of welding. Im just an amatuer, but one with patience. I would try on a scrap piece first. I might have a wet towel on hand. Have you ever tried to weld body steel or rusty body steel. You get a few seconds before a hole melts. Mentioned else where play dough makes a great heat pull putty.