What is this noise?
 

Here's the noise that started last week on our Nevadaho Road Trip. What do you think it is? (12 second video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWo9x...ature=youtu.be

Re: What is this noise?
 

Have you used a stethoscope? Or, a broom handle? (One end on the car where you think the noise is coming from and hold your ear to the SIDE of the broom handle.)

Re: What is this noise?
 

I haven't done that yet and maybe I will. I don't know how I would record that for others to hear. I don't hear anything when the car is in gear running. As in the video, I can only hear the noise when the wheels are turning but not connected to the engine. As far as location and source of the noise, it is definitely in the rear end - more likely in the differential than the axle. Any ideas?:confused:

Re: What is this noise?
 

broken axle spline?

Re: What is this noise?
 

Sounds like ring and pinion, if I understand what you did was shut the engine off and push in the clutch. Do you only hear this while decelerating going down the road?

Re: What is this noise?
 

Sounds serious.
I can't say what it is, but I think I can say this.

It appears to be at wheel speed. If you watch the torque tube, you can see where the light is shining through the left wheel, and and you can see the rotation of the wheel in the light. The noise seems to match the speed of the light on the torque tube.

This would tend to rule out anything associated with the torque tube or driveshaft, for example the noise when the pin comes adrift and rubs on the torque tube, something in the pinion bearing or the driveshaft intermediate or front bearing or the UJ or trans bearings.

That's quite a few things ruled out.

So what's left.

Wheel bearings, ring gear tooth damage. Ring gear bolt backed out?? (sorta guessing here) Diff side bearings

I'd say a strip down is inevitable.

If you didn't want to pull the whole rearend you could remove the left shackle and just remove the left axle bell, and the ring gear and shafts can all be removed.

I can't think what it could be that would be fixable without some sort of a teardown.

Have you drained the oil and checked for metallic particles in the oil?

Have you held the right wheel and turned the left and held the left and turned the right?

Or repeat the test like in the video but with each wheel locked in turn.

Might not show anything, but you never know, it might show something.

Can't help thinking, though, no matter what you find, a stripdown will be needed.

Mart.

Re: What is this noise?
 

I just had another look - if the light is shining through the 4 windows in the wheel, it is approximating driveshaft revs, so it could indeed be driveshaft related.

Still pointing towards a teardown, though, I think.

Mart.

Re: What is this noise?
 

sounds like a chipped tooth on either the ring or pinion gear. had a chipped tooth on a pinion gear once that sounded similar. I still to this day don't know how that pinon tooth got chipped.-----Jim

Re: What is this noise?
 

There is some sound decelerating but mostly with clutch in or in neutral.

Re: What is this noise?
 

That is extremely obsevant. However, the flash on the torque tube is through the gaps in the wheel which is four flashes per turn of the wheel. So, that's more the drive shaft speed incriminating something at the back end of the drive shaft or pinion part of the differential. (Oops. Just saw your next post that concluded the same.)

No question - I'm going to have to take something apart. Just trying to narrow down where to start - back end of torque tube or differential. Stethoscope is probably next. (I've usually used a long screw driver but I like the idea of the real thing.)

http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znet...25210/image/4/

Available from Autozone: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...fier=70131_0_0_

Re: What is this noise?
 

Sounds can really travel and fool you. I agree it's at driveshaft speed. Might get lucky and it be the U-joint (hope so). Personally, I can't see any way to prevent some serious disassembly.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Couldn't wait till tomorrow to buy a stethoscope. Got my long screwdriver out and used as a stethoscope. Sound is definitely inside of the differential. From the sound and speed and frequency of it I'm thinking it's something to do with the pinion gear. It's not regular enough to be a broken tooth. It's more random like something else broken loose. I guess it's time to tear it apart and see. May try Mart's idea of starting with just removing the left bell and see what I can see and maybe replace without removing the entire axle. Thanks for that idea. I'm still open to any others as well.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Think I would remove the brake drums to start with and try the noise run again

Re: What is this noise?
 

With all you've done and your posted findings. I'm thinking a pinion bearing failed. Noisy running with no or low load and gets quieter loaded leads me to believe that. At any rate it's going to be a project. I'm interested in what you find.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Won't even start on it until after December 10th when we have our big family Christmas party in The G'Raj Mahal (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=175104). Can't do that if Old Henry is stuck in there without any back wheels or axle. So, I'll just keep driving it until then - but no further than I'd want to tow him home if he really broke down.
Wish me luck.:rolleyes:

Re: What is this noise?
 

That's what I'm thinking too. Sure rather it be that than the pinion or ring gears. That pair costs $450.00 new.:eek:

Re: What is this noise?
 

Fortunately, I have Chuck up the street that just rebuilt his rear end on his '47 after blowing it out on our Death Valley trip last February. (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62705) I'll be pickin' his brain the whole way. :o

Re: What is this noise?
 

Old Henry:

Just out of curiosity have you pulled the plug and check the grease level,
I know it is like closing the "BARN" door after the horse is out,but do I remember you taking your car to a Professional lube & oil change center.
Not Ha Ha funny but still funny that 2 of you from the same area have had some type of rearend problem.

Re: What is this noise?
 

I saw somewhere that a problem with the Ford rears was that the pin in the driveshaft coupling would break and rattle around. The recommended fix was to drill a hole in the torque tube at a certain location, fish out the offending pin halves and put a pipe plug in the hole.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Pull the plugs on the center housing, look for metal in the grease, shine a light in there and look around. Sort of sounds like a loose bolt that has run out and rubbing the housing to me.

Re: What is this noise?
 

4 clicks per revolution sounds like it is in front of the rear. Indicates a 3:78 rear and sounds like the pin in the shaft coupling pin. I have seen a number of these pins come loose. They slide out as the drive shaft turns and hit the torque tube. The pin is to long to drop out. I doubt this can be repaired by drilling a hole in the tube as someone mentioned. A peice of heater hose is good for listening. G.M.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Pulling just the one side was a suggestion I made when I thought it was in the rear, rather than the driveshaft area. On balance you'd probably do better to pull the whole rear and give it a thorough checkover considering the long journeys you like to make.

Mart.

Re: What is this noise?
 

I already went over a year with that danged pin rubbing on the inside of the torque tube before it finally wore down enough to drop out. Most annoying noise. So, it's not that.

As I said earlier, my "stethoscope" indicated it is inside of the differential at the same frequency as the drive shaft so most likely a pinion gear bearing.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Had the differential oil checked just before our trip and it was full. Haven't pulled the plugs yet to check since. May do that today just out of curiosity.

Must be something in the water on our street that Chuck and I both have had rear end problems this year.:rolleyes:

Re: What is this noise?
 

Yeah. I had pretty much concluded the same thing after reading a recent thread about it here: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89668

Re: What is this noise?
 

Through the Stethoscope: Here's a video of the previous test hearing the internal sounds through the stethoscope I bought today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1P1B...ature=youtu.be

Whadaya think?

Here's a picture of the liquid gold I drained out of the differential - clear sign of metal wear inside. (That oil was just new before our trip.) You can really see the sparklies on the plug.

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1353696799

Re: What is this noise?
 

What does it do in reverse?? (There might be answer to my question up above, but...)

Re: What is this noise?
 

Reverse is no different.

Re: What is this noise?
 

My hat is off to you sir for driving a 65 year old car regularly. Things happen in old cars. This is one of those things. Fix it once, fix it right. It will be good for the rest of your time.

Re: What is this noise?
 

I'm not sure if that rear has "spider gears" or not but I had the exact same noise come out of a Dodge rear. It was the shaft that runs through the spider gears. The keeper pin broke and the shaft would move back and forth, but to long to fall out. Just saying.

Re: What is this noise?
 

I do have spider gears and will certainly check those when we get it apart. Thanks for the tip.

Re: What is this noise?
 

The early ford rear does not tend to suffer from that sort of pin drifting out problem because it has 4 pinions on a forged cross shaped pin thing.

Don't rule anything out though.

Mart.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Sonny - I think spider gears are a requirement for most, if not all, differential gear set-ups. FWIW

Re: What is this noise?
 

Even my walk behind self propelled mower has them. If it's a differential rather than solid axle (like some ATV's) it's got spider gears.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Run a Magnet through the oil. If it's metalic the magnet will remove the particals. G.M.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Take it to Chucks up the street and work on it there.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Henrykokomo, I'm familiar with the workings of a differential I used to set up rear ends for racing. I asked about the spiders because I have also locked up rears without spiders. FWIW

Re: What is this noise?
 

All "open" diffs have spider gears, Sonny was referring to a non Ford type diff having the pin that the spiders run on come loose and start to come out, hence making a noise. These diffs have two spiders and a single pin. Early Ford diffs have spiders, but 4 of 'em on a cross shaped pin forging. Hence in a ford diff the problem of the pin coming adrift cannot happen.

Mart.

Re: What is this noise?
 

I did run the magnet through the oil. I didn't think it would pick up anything because I thought all of the shiny specks were brass colored but I couldn't think of what in the banjo would be that color. Well, turned out all of the shiny specks that clung to the magnet were silver colored steel - they only looked gold because of the color of the oil. So, definitely have something steel wearing out in there. Hope to find out what tonight.

Re: What is this noise?
 

Sonny, please don't confuse us with Dodge knowledge. We're working overtime here just to keep up with our Ford stuff!