Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

It is the old junior Model A guy when it comes to these kind of problems. Would like some help trying to pin down this problem.

My engine in my coupe has a "clicking" sound in it as opposed to a "knock". I have tried the following to try to pin it down:

1. Grounded out each spark plug-not change in sound.
2. Changed out the distributor from a two part shaft type to a single shaft type-no change.
3. Took out the timing pin, turned it around, stated engine and had running and then pushed the timing pin against the timing gear-no change.
4. Rechecked the timing.-No change.
5. Took the fan belt off and ran the engine-No change.
6. Purchased a HF listening thing and tried to listen for the sound. Checked a number of places on the engine and not knowing what I should be hearing, did not find much of a noise location except when I put it on the distributor, it seems to make a little different sound.

So I have run out of ideas as to what to do next. The sound seems to be not as loud when the spark is all the way up. Does anyone have any more ideas as to what I could check? Would appreciate any ideas.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Checked your starter bolts for proper length?Is this while driving or idling?

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Fred,
Mine does the same thing. Tried all the same tricks you did but no luck either. Folks suggested possibly a broken ring, wrist pin noise or piston. Mine is somewhat irregular but definately a click rather than a knock.
Pete

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

First thing that came to mind was one time on my car, the distributor starting making a noticeable tick sound. It was the distributor shaft needing to be oiled at the top and bottom bushing. Also, I've seen hairline cracks in the distributor caps making a tick sound when the voltage travels through them. Try oiling the shaft and changing all the plastic pieces on your distributor. Any tick I've ever heard under the hood has always been distributor based. Your on the right track. Lastly, could it be a rotor cap spinning and touching one of the metal studs inside the distributor cap? Keep at it and let us know.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Valve timinig isn't in your list.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Perhaps the engine was rebuilt at some point with adjustable lifters - generally if one is making a noise (sometimes sounds like a tick), then it will generally go away with warm up. If not, then a modest "ticking" sound can hang in there at various speeds.

Good luck -

SHEC

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

My thoughts too are valve lash or distributor..

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Mine ticks so loud it almost has a desal engine at idle. It's just there's so much were it dose that. If it stoped ticking I'd be concerened. 20000 -25000 miles last year with all that ticking an no problem I wouldent worrie about it

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Does it go away when the engine warms up? I have a tick in my coupe when it's cold, but it goes away as the engine gets warmed up. Local expert opinions suggest either piston slap or a cracked/broken ring on #3. I'm going to go with piston slap because my compression readings are good. Maybe next spring I'll take it apart, and check and adjust the valves at that time.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

I would check your valve lifter gaps , and check the timing gear crank gear lash .

Most people don't reccomend that single distributor shaft !! The 2 part one is better

John Cochran

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

I don't think it is in the distributor. I completely replaced the distributor, all different parts with another distributor I had rebuilt. This one had the single shaft. Still the same click. So the click seems to be there with either a single shaft or double shaft( original distributor was double shaft)

It does have adjustable lifters. When I installed the "new" engine I just put in, I looked at the valve section. It was not a rebuilt engine but rather one I purchased and I checked it out (big mistake for me to check it) But being not a capable mechanic, I did not check the lifters for proper clearance.

When I was checking the engine, I did take off the flywheel and put it back on. I used the same bolts that were in it to put it back on. But I did put in a new (aftermarket) washer in between the flywheel and end of the crank. From what I read on the Barn, this could be a problem area-hope not.

The other bolt situation could be the starter like mentioned above. I think I will go out this afternoon and take one bolt loose at a time while it is running and see if that makes a difference. I did use the same bolts that were in the starter when I purchased the engine, but guess it could still be a problem.

The last thing I could think of and mentioned above, would be to check the valve gaps. Guess I will have to read the book to see how to go about this unless someone has a simple way to do this.

The other thing I did not do when I installed the "new" engine was to take off the head nor did I check the compression. A couple of things this lazy guy did not do. May need to back up and do these.

The noise does not change whether it is cold or hot. But is seems to be a little bit less when I put the spark up but is still there.

Will keep you all posted. Thanks for the ideas.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

What made you take off the flywheel ?? And why did you install a 'washer' between the crank and flywheel ??

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Fred, It could be as easy as the camshaft thrust plunger & spring set (A-6275 & A-6276) These get worn and a lot of engine rebuilders don't replace this unit. It then allows the camshaft to move lengthwise back and forth a few thousands. I have just repaired two Model A's making your clicking sound. Just a thought to check.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Fred. I'm assuming you errored in saying you put the washer between the crank and the flywheel, right?

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Have you tried a listening stick?

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Yes I purchased a HF supper duper one. In using it, and I don't really know how to use it, when I touch the distributor, it seems to be the loudest.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Fred. I'm assuming you errored in saying you put the washer between the crank and the flywheel, right?

I took flywheel off because I considered changing the ring gear but then decided the ring gear was not in that bad of shape and left it. Guess the proper term for the "washer" is "spacer plate". I put the new one back in the same way the old one came out.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

I have been told about this possibility before but have not done anything about it yet. Could be a possibility. Question on this item-would this problem cause a consistent click? This what I have, a consistent click.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

I am thinking what you call a spacer plate is the flywheel dowel retainer plate. It goes between the flywheel and the bolt heads and covers the dowel holes to keep them from coming out if they loosen. If indeed you did install it between the flywheel and the crankshaft flange, you might have a problem. I do not know if that would be the source of the click, but its not the right way to install a flywheel. It could shim it back enough so the ring gear teeth strike the bendix teeth and possibly contribute to wobble as well.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

I bought a used counterweighted engine. Number four weight was ticking the rear edge of the dipper pan part time. Was very difficult to find.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Pat, I am pretty sure I put the "flywheel dowel retainer plate" back in the same way I took it out. But if I didn't, then after all these other checks that have been suggested are made, I may need to go back and check this one out again-I hope I don't have to. But the way I understand this situation, if I messed up, the bolts will stick through to far and eventually will wipe out the rear main seal and oil will start to drip out of the flywheel cover-hope this does not happen.

Thanks for the help.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

"Back in the way it came out" is only correct if it was correct in the first place.:D It would not cause the bolts to strike the aluminum seal if it were installed between the flywheel and flange. The distance of the bolt tips would remain the same. However, I seriously doubt the retainer would fit into the flange recess without modification. I'll check one out tomorrow and let you know if it does. I only bring it up because of the wording of your description. I've never seen nor heard of such a thing

BTW, A worn center cam journal is not unusual, and can make a click not too much unlike a valve. The sound would run up the distributor shaft. Place your listing device on the block casting which houses the shaft, right below the valve cover.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

"BTW, A worn center cam journal is not unusual, and can make a click not too much unlike a valve. The sound would run up the distributor shaft. Place your listing device on the block casting which houses the shaft, right below the valve cover."

Thanks Pat for this comment. I will try it. When I put my listing device on the distributor body, the click seemed to me (not knowing what I should try to hear) to be louder. So will give it a try.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Pete, if it was a broken ring or wrist pin noise, wouldn't the noise change when I shorted out each piston? It did not change.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Like Pat said,, the distance/length would be the same so the bolt[s] shouldn't extend too far.. The easy way to check is just remove the front flywheel cover and look at how far the bolts extend thru the crank flange [they shouldn't].. That dowel cover should only be able to go on one way if I remember correctly,, but,, anything can be done if you work on it long enough..
Without going back and re-reading your original post,, what were you using to find the noise ?? Try to pin it down with a stethoscope, screwdriver, hose, dowel,etc.. Without any more info,, I'm still leaning toward valve lash/clearance, distributor drive.. If a new drive gear has been put against the old cam gear then they can argue for awhile until they get used to each other.. If it turns out to be valve lash then that should be an easy fix since I think you said you had adjustable lifters.. Personally I'd rather hear them rattle a little than not..

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Thanks Patrick for the info on how to check the flywheel bolts.

I used an electronic type stethoscope that I purchased from HF.

The engine I installed I had purchased from a fellow my son knew. This fellow did not have any history on what had been done with the engine. So when I got it, I took the pan off, checked the rod bearings and they were all within .001-0015. The marks they put on when they re bore a cylinder were still showing on each cylinder. Also I looked in the spark plug holes (did not take the head off) and inside every one looked very clean-no carbon. So I assumed (you all know what that means (ass u me) that the engine had been rebuilt shortly before this guy took it out of his A. Thus I installed the engine as it had come to me. I did replace the flywheel cover because one of the rear motor mount areas had been welded up. So thought it would be a good idea to replace it. That is why I took off the flywheel.

Thus I did not do anything with the cam/distributor drive area nor do I know what was done with it before I got the engine.

If all else in the checking I do does not find anything, I may go and take the valve cover off again and do some checking of the lifters like was suggested or just put up with the noise.

Thanks again for the ideas.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Gary, the noise is there if it is idling, increased speed or driving. Seems to be the same at all times.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

I know a guy who had a tick in his A. He thought it was in the wood. :p

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Guess there is a guy like this in every crowd. :D

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Pat, I went down to the shop today and froze my b#$$ off and tried out your advise. I put the listing device on the spot you mentioned and yes the click can be heard there. But I could also run the device back and forth from this spot in the lower block area to the rear of the block and to the front of the block, and found the click could be heard all the way along the route I took with the device but it did not seem to be as loud as it was on the shaft area. I also put the listing device in other spots on the engine, timing gear cover, head, valve cover, rear motor mounts, etc. and I could still hear a little click but not near as much as in the lower part of the block. But I have an untrained ear that may not know what it is hearing!

So with the possibility that it may be a worn cam journal, where do I go from here? Can I just let it click and ignore it? Will it destroy the engine if I do nothing? What will it do from here-get louder, mess up the cam, or ??? What is involved to fix the situation assuming it needs to be fixed-pull the engine or can it be fixed other than an engine pull? Sorry, just a lot of questions from a guy that knows nothing about these sorts of things.

Thanks again for the information.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Originally Posted by 700rpm
I know a guy who had a tick in his A. He thought it was in the wood.

It turned out to be in his clock. The timing was off. He doesn't want to tock about it.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Fred,

Without actually hearing the noise, all I can do is guess from your description. It might just be an uneven tappet. Adjustable tappets come with the top uneven, sometimes even with a small point in the center. I always have them decked for even, quiet contact. But my guess is a lot of them just get installed right out of the box. A light click from the valve area from a loose adjustment, uneven tappet or loose cam bearing will probably not hurt anything. I would try adjusting the valves, as it might just be that. My best advice is for you to find a local mechanic or machinist , preferably familiar with Model A's ( try your local club chapter...there must be several in the Portland area) who can listen to it and give you an experienced opinion.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Pat you are correct. With my very limited experience with this sort of thing, I am kind of going around in circles trying to find this. I do have a guy in this area that rebuilt one of my other engines that I need to get him to listen. He is very busy so it may be awhile before I can get to him. I also belong to a local club that has a lot of guys that have far more experience than I do. So I need to use my local resources. Thanks for trying to help and also thanks to everyone that also offered some advise on this situation. I may mess around with it myself and maybe learn something, until I can get a pro to give me a hand.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

I had one that done made that same noise. It was the timing gear. it had the metal center and had come loose from the fiber part. Changed it out stopped the noise,

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Fred,
If it's a valve/lifter tick, I've had good success in localizing it using an open hose on the stethascope. Just run the hose along close, but NOT touching the valve side cover. With using the probe, sometimes the noise transmits & is hard to localize. Sometimes a pin hole leak at one exhaust port can also sound like a "TICK." Use the hose to check for such a possible leak. Hose can also check for vacuum leaks. They will scream like a "BANSHEE!" Some noises from distributor/shafts are quite NORMAL when checking with the open hose or with the probe. (Who says I can't be serious?---- THE DOG'S LAUGHIN'!) Bill W.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Thanks Bill,

A question-what kind of hose? Like a vacumn hose or a garden hose?

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Fred,
Just take the probe off the stethascope & listen with the little hose of the stethascope. Bill W.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Well this is the old no nothing pest again. After all the ideas you all presented and some of the checks I have made on this clicking noise, I feel (hey, I an getting modern with "feelings") that the noise is coming from either the timing gear area or one of the tappets. So have some more questions.

With the engine in the car, if I take the carb off, the oil return tube and the valve cover off, will that give me enough room to do a tappet check and maybe adjustment? Or do I also have to take the exhaust pipe and manifold off?

Second question. If I want to take the timing gear cover off to check it out, do I need to take the radiator off?

Would like some ideas because I am lazy and don't want to do any more work than I have to. Thanks again for ideas. I hope I get this thing solved so I don't have to bother you all again.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

Removing the carb and valve cover should allow you to adjust the valves.

No need to remove the radiator to remove the timing side cover and check the gear. But, If the timing gear needs to be changed, it sure would be easier with the radiator out of the way.

Re: Engine "click" noise-Need some help
 

if you want to check the valves, follow this procedure from Vince to make it easier. I usually tape some masking tape under the manifolds to write what measurement I got so I don't have to remember what it was after I raise the lifter to adjust it.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ruleofnine.htm