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Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices 1 Attachment(s)
There has been a one-page flathead compression ratio chart posted on the web, for several years created by David Fort, from the state of Washington . He created the chart for Ford & Mercury flatheads compression ratios around 2002. It was done in an Excel spreadsheet. I was able to contact him through the Fordbarn.com website. This chart was developed primarily for the 8BA series engines. About 2 years later, David told me, he revised the basic chart and was kind enough to e-mail me a copy of the revised chart as a file. His 2nd generation chart included piston dome cc’s information as well as head gasket cc’s info & valve counter bore cc’s info.
I’ve been retrieving other Ford & Mercury heads data & CR’s from other sources not only for the 8BA’s but also the 59A’s and 221 cu/in engines series. I discussed my data with Bruce Lancaster and he suggested I attempt to expand David’s chart . Bruce would send me additional original Ford & Mercury data to include in the revision. The information Bruce sent me also included Canadian Ford data. The following is the result of the revisions and is attached the PDF file. Some things to note: 1. Compression ratio is a calculation of the (cylinder volume+ combustion chamber volume) divided by the (combustion chamber volume.), all converted to cc’s. 2. Piston dome configurations are available in several varieties most commonly round top dome and cone top dome. Calculations on the spreadsheet are done with standard Ford type cone top pistons. Using domed pistons reduces chamber volumes as the dome is above the deck area in the head. This measured dome volume data is entered as a minus (-) value. 3. As the bore of the cylinder increases the dome volume also increases. . 4. The volume of the cylinder head gasket affects the chamber volume of the head in the above equation. This data is entered as a plus (+) value. Only Best brand Graphite gaskets volumes were used for the calculations. Best gaskets are available for most Ford flatheads in GraphTite or copper. Armin Brown from Best Gaskets Company was kind enough to provide the cc’s and maximum bore sizes to me. GrapTite gaskets are listed with a compressed thickness of 0.057” and copper gaskets are listed as a compressed thickness of 0.055”. Over the years gasket materials may have changed as well as the thickness that could provide minor differences between Ford published data and my charts. 5. Best brand standard gaskets for the 8BA & 59A are good for bores up to 3.290”. Bores above that should use big bore gaskets either in GraphTite or copper that go to bores as large as 3.440. Best brand standard gaskets for the 59A engines should be used on the 19, 29, & 99 engines and are also good for bores up to 3.290”. Bores above that should use 59A big bore gaskets either in Graph Tite or copper that go to bores as large as 3.440. Data on charts reflects automatic change from standard gasket to big bore gasket when bore exceeds Standard Best gasket bore size. 6. Wikipedia suggests that compression ratios above 10:1 may create engine knock on today’s pump gas. Joe Abbin suggests a 9.1:1 ratio not be exceeded to run on today’s lower octane fuels. JWL suggest 9.7:1 not be exceeded so discretion in heads selection choices for your engine should be in your best judgment. Ratios that are above 9:1 are highlighted in yellow on the charts. The spreadsheets use all the above data to calculate the CR of various heads with various bores and strokes. As the bore is increased the dome area is also increased subtracting the dome volume from the combustion chamber volume. As the stroke is increased the calculations reflect the resultant change. As the cc’s values increase between standard bore head gaskets and big bore gaskets this volume is also corrected in the spreadsheets. Eighteen pages (including cover) are provided in the attached PDF charts; 2 sheets for the basic 239 cu/in engine. Included are standard Ford USA and Canadian factory heads data and aftermarket heads data from Denver, Offenhauser, Baron, Sharp, Edmonds, Eldelbrock, Sharp Navarro & Weiand. All calculations were done using Best Gaskets provided data listed on page 15. Some information also included on the same page is from the Fel-Pro Gasket Company but they do not provide any copper gaskets. None of the Fel-Pro gasket data was used in the calculations. The measured difference in thickness between the Best & Fel Pro gaskets are Fel Pro were thicker by 0.008”. As aftermarket heads data was not a plentiful as the 221 cu/in data. As aftermarket heads data was not a plentiful as the 221 cu/in data. If anyone has any additional heads data for the 239 or 221 cu/in engines I’d be happy to revise the file to include updated data. Many thanks for David Fort, Bruce Lancaster, Joe Abbin, Armin Brown, JWL, Scott Miller and others for their input & data in this effort. Hopefully this data will be beneficial for use in our flathead Fords & Mercurys in future years. Jim |
Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices An amazing and HUGE job! Can't wait to get it all opened up. Bruce
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices It's been fixed thanks to Ryan!
Jim |
Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Yes, Yes, Yes!!! Thanks to all for their efforts. Dennis/Arkansas
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices I e-mailed it to Ryan and he's gonna try to attach it to my first post, should show up at the bottom of that post when loaded. Maybe in red? I don't remember!
Jim |
Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices attachment added!
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Wow Jim, great job, thanks for sharing, appreciated.
Vergil |
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Jim |
Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Thanks to all for the outstanding effort - it's been added to the Flathead Vault
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices well thats about the best tec advice ive seen in a long time,,thats exactly what a forum is for,,:):):):) keep up the good work,,ive got something like that in my stuff i will see if i can find it ,,thanks again :):)
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Thanks for your hard work, excellent info!!
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices fantastic job and many thanks to all involved. I can only imagine all the work this has taken. Perfect timing also as I was going to post a query to identify 2 sets I have here. C7RA, 6050b and C91A 6049B. Now I know. Thanks Bill
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices i`d like to add my thanx, job well done!
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Thanks, that is great information to have.
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Thanks for the time and effort putting this chart together. Your chart along with Old Ron's and JWL's books give those of us that are "flathead challenged" a better appreciation of how best to tackle our engine rebuilds and what to expect as a result.
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Thanks for this tremendous effort. I have printed off the entire file so I have it handy for reference. As we say here down under; 'Good on ya mate!' Many thanks to all involved in collating this valuable information Brian
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Thanks for all the compliments guys but it was Bruce's idea, I just took it and ran with it.
I'd like to update this with more info on older aftermarket heads if possible. If you have any old heads, not in the charts, please carefully measure the combustion chamber cc''s. This can fairly easily be done with a spare head gasket, a $0.20 3 cc syringe from a drugstore and a piece of clear Lexan with head bolt holes drilled in it and a small hole near the top of the valve pockets. I know there were a bunch of aftermarket heads produced by the Aussies and others. Jim |
Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices I can open the pdf.....?
How comes? Michael |
Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Jim That's an incedable job. Having worked in this area for years, I know just how much time you've put into this. I will send you the info I have in the CR checker.
Thanks again for a great job. OL' Ron |
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Jim |
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Thanks and looking forward to receiving it. |
Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Now ì was able to open it!
Thank you for share the information!!!! |
Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices An excellent job blown49 and thanks to all involved, a hard copy is now sitting on my printer tray.
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Awesome!
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices I just ordered a new printer and this will be my first print job.
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Jim |
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Wow, I know this is an old thread, but thanks for the info. great work.
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Sadly, Jim Leis (Blown49) passed away since this thread. He was a regular contributor and is missed!
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Thanks, that is great information to have.From FINLAND
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices He put a tremendous amount of sheer hard working into all the calculating and double checking. I don't think there will ever be a better chart than his! He used to phone from time to time, always discussing arcane flatheadiana and his careful decoding and listing of critical facts and dimensions.
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices It saddens me to find out the passed away, we had numerious conversations and I found him tobe very knowledgeable. My condolences to his family.
Ol' Ron |
Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices I know this is an old post but I was doing some reading and I could not open the pdf attachment. Does anyone else have this? Thanks Gary
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices It opened for me OK. Try this link:https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...2&d=1275935985
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices I just open it with no issues.
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Wonderful info thanks.Answers so many questions.Geoff
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices Thanks guys I got it and printed it. It kept telling me I wasn't logged in every time I tried to open it. Beats me.
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices 4 Attachment(s)
Bringing this old thread back up after recently acquiring a set of 41T heads. Bruce Lancaster always used to talk about the desirable Denver head compression ratios (81AS, 19AS, 99AS). If the data in the spreadsheet is correct, seems to me the 41T had a pretty desirable factory compression ratio as well? Any thoughts or comments?
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices It is my opinion that anyone who just slaps a set of heads on their engine without carefully measuring them and subsequently modifying them for optimum quench and compression is leaving a significant amount of performance and economy on the table.
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Re: Flathead V8 Compression Ratios...6,020 choices 1 Attachment(s)
I suspect the table has a typo for the 41T combustion chamber size. The chamber in your pictures matches pictures I have of another 41T head. The combustion chamber looks very similar to a 29A head, and that is listed as 79 cc chamber. The "T" in the part number is for truck use, a lower compression application as shown by the other truck heads in the chart (81T, 99T, etc.). I suspect the 41T is closer to an 82 cc chamber instead of a 62 cc chamber. Best way to know is to put a spark plug in one of the chambers, drop a flat clear plate on it, fill it with the fluid of your choice from a graduated cylinder, and get a true measurement. Please let us know what you find if you measure a chamber.
Picture of a 29A combustion chamber: https://fordbarn.com/forum/attachmen...8&d=1737170722 |
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