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Flying Flathead 4 Attachment(s)
A friend sent this and don't know if it has been shared here.I could only copy part of the text.Pretty cool.Maybe DD can elaborate!!
FW: Ford-men legends - Ford’s Flying Wing The Flying Flathead Prior to the Flying Wing design of the B-2 Stealth Bomber or the WWII German Horten, Ford built a tail-less Flying Wing aircraft powered by a Flathead. When the 75hp Ford Flathead V8 first came out in 1932, a special high performance batch of all-aluminum Flatheads were built that made 115hp. It was this special version that powered Ford’s new aircraft called the Ford Flivver 15P. |
Re: Flying Flathead One reason it never flew was they couldn’t find a pilot stupid enough to climb into the cockpit. Just one reason.
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Re: Flying Flathead Quote:
I would sure like one of those aluminum flatheads, though. |
Re: Flying Flathead Denny I thought the same. Light weight & 115 h p in a Model A 2 dr sedan....YES !
As for the flying machine, I,ll stick with The Tri Motor. Lots of rides as a youngster & flew right seat at 9 yrs old. Hearald let me take the yoke & he stayed on the rudder pedals. What a blessing !!!! |
Re: Flying Flathead Ah, Island Airlines' Tri-Motors to and from Port Clinton and Put-in-Bay; low, slow, and a barrel of fun never to be forgotten.
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Re: Flying Flathead 2 Attachment(s)
I had a flight in a Tri-Motor out of the Marathon airport about 4 years ago. I was very impressed with the performance and comfort it provided. As far as I can see, you could still run one successfully on shorter commuter runs these days. (Only in good weather though.)
All in all, the best $75 I ever spent. I think I'll check and see if they are coming back this winter! |
Re: Flying Flathead A ride in a tri-Motor should be on everyone's bucket list. Was able to do it about 4 years ago and it was the thrill of a lifetime. As tubman says "the best $75 I ever spent". Actually at the time I would have paid twice that amount just to get the ride.
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Re: Flying Flathead While the idea of the Ford flying wing was no doubt scary I wonder where aviation would have been had the idea progressed. Maybe advancing designs a few decades earlier than what actually finally developed many decades latter. works.
It would be nice to find out lots more about the aluminum flatheads used for the project. The Granateli brothers also know as GranCor once advertised aluminum Ford flatheads for sale no doubt surplus from some Ford project. Maybe from the flying wing era. Ronnieroadster |
Re: Flying Flathead https://oldmachinepress.com/2016/04/...onal-aircraft/
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...0&d=1637400353 Directly aft of the firewall behind the pilot and passenger was the Ford flathead V-8 engine. Although engine specifics have not been found, the engine most likely had a 3.0625 in (77.8 mm) bore, a 3.75 in (95.3 mm) stroke, and displaced 221 cu in (3.62 L). The engine is noted as being virtually standard so that parts would be available from most Ford auto repair shops. Unique to the aircraft engine was its all-aluminum construction and that it produced 115 hp (86 kW) at 4,000 rpm. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/wp-cont...-1024x521.jpeg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/c7...ef8694125f.jpg |
Re: Flying Flathead https://oldmachinepress.com/2016/04/10/ford-15p-personal-aircraft/
Very little information regarding the Ford 15P remains. The aircraft’s approximate specifications are a wingspan of 34 ft (10.4 m), a length of 14 ft (4.27 m), and a gross weight of 1,600 lb (726 kg). The 15P had an estimated top speed of 120 mph (193 km/h) and a maximum range of 500 miles (805 km). https://oldmachinepress.files.wordpr...pg?w=625&h=291 |
Re: Flying Flathead Quote:
Most-assuredly, if you ever get the chance to ride in a Tri-Motor Ford, GO! I rode on my first one at Oshkosh in 1981...yup, the year of the controllers' strike while Oshkosh was going-on. I remember back then, it cost $15 to go around the patch in that noisy old rattling Ford. More to the subject at hand, the Ford 15P. I remember talking about this airplane on this forum some time in the distant past. It surely was different, to say the least. Some beautiful metal-pounding for sure by talented artisans, with such talents being very rare today. A couple of folks here have commented that there was no fin, no rudder and no (vertical) stabilizer. Well guys, the old YB-49, as well as today's B-2 and now the new B-21 are all what we commonly refer to as a "flying wing", and their stable flight, especially the current models, is well under control in the 'YAW' axis via "drag rudders", mounted on the outboard, rear of each wing, as is stated in the accompanying article on the "P15"....click the link BELOW. https://oldmachinepress.com/2016/04/...onal-aircraft/ A couple of you even suggested that the "P15" never even flew, which is incorrect. The airplane made several flights sometime after early 1936, all flown by Ford head pilot Harry Russell. Ever since the early '60s, I have heard tell of 10 "special" aluminum Ford flathead blocks that were produced for aircraft applications. This "P15" apparently got one of those special critters. The one detailed picture of the engine shows some interesting features for us flathead aficionados to ponder. https://oldmachinepress.files.wordpr...pg?w=625&h=318 Click the link BELOW for a LARGER, more-detailed picture. https://oldmachinepress.files.wordpr...15p-engine.jpg The heads appear to be the pump-in-head type currently in use on Ford cars at the time (1936), mounted backwards. The fuel pump location should define the "rear" of the engine. In addition, drive duties should always be undertaken by the flywheel end of the crankshaft. Furthermore, the angle of the fan belt suggests that two later style water pumps were in use to circulate water. One other note is that the propeller is pitched such that it must turn in the NON-STANDARD, reverse direction of clock-wise as seen while facing the aircraft from the front. The normal flathead crankshaft rotation would be counter-clockwise as seen while facing the aircraft. But alas, MOST propellers can't stand to be turned at the crankshaft speeds that the flathead was capable of turning. Therefore, it is most-likely that there was a geared-reduction box in the system, therefore necessitating the propeller to be of the reverse-pitch variety. I would be interested in seeing any additional pictures that anyone may have of this aircraft, or additional history on it's eventual demise. It should be noted here that this airplane had nothing to do with an aircraft known as "Ford's Flying Flivver". That was an aircraft that Ford was developing ten years earlier to "put a Ford airplane within every man's reach". It crashed off the Florida coast as a result of a toothpick being placed in a fuel cap vent hole by it's Ford pilot Harry Brooks, and forgotten. DD Brooks & The Flivver https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.oN-B5f...r=1.25&pid=1.7 . |
Re: Flying Flathead 3 Attachment(s)
tubman,
We may have been passengers on the same flight. |
Re: Flying Flathead |
Re: Flying Flathead I similarly had a great time getting a ride in a Tri-motor several years ago out of San Carlos airport south of San Francisco, exceeded only by a ride in the B-17 "Aluminum Overcast" out of the old Mather AFB near Sacramento the next year. now THAT was definitely the best $400 I've ever spent!
Adam |
Re: Flying Flathead Quote:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/138/3...04753849_z.jpg http://www.aero-news.net/images/cont...ng-0504-1a.jpg |
Re: Flying Flathead |
Re: Flying Flathead Hotrod Mag had a write up on this engine back in the 60's. Had a picture on the cover.
Yes, I was a member of EAA and had a ride in their Tri motor. Gramps |
Re: Flying Flathead I was lucky enough to fly on the Collins Foundation's B-17. It crashed 11 days later at Bradley. It was an amazing ride but I'd have to think a bit before I'd go up in another vintage aircraft. The Tri-motor is cool. It would be hard to say no to a ride.
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Re: Flying Flathead Is that belly landing photo the Bradley crash? My dad had a friend who was a ball turret gunner on a B17. You just had to respect that guy for his part.
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Re: Flying Flathead Coop you go to Oshkosh? My uncle built a plane in his basement and the corvair motor started spitting oil after a few flights and he had to make a dip wing field landing. He survived. He keeps telling me to go to Oshkosh, he goes every yr. Nasa has booths there. Big event. Sounds fun!
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Re: Flying Flathead I was able to take a hop in a Ford Tri Motor as well. Fun!
https://i.postimg.cc/90HC6dYf/769-BC...7-B1-B8384.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/9XyWGkcw/8-E273...3-F1216-DC.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/GhQdfs8c/987-E9...9620401471.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/0jGPPzV0/DC19-D...D8-B2-A6-A.jpg |
Re: Flying Flathead Quote:
The belly landing crash seen above was actually the result of a sudden gear collapse while taxiing on the airport. Unfortunately, the Bradley crash was the Collings Foundation's B-17 known as "909". It was awful, and what was left of the entire airplane is seen in this photo. #2 engine atop that white de-icing tank. DD https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...4&d=1637575583 |
Re: Flying Flathead I worked with a fella who was a tail gunner in a 17. Pilot gruond looped the thing on their last flight & the tail section was severed by a light pole. It spun around & left my friend able to crawl out un harmed. The 17 was scrapped.
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Re: Flying Flathead The Ford 15-P design would likely have needed a lot of design rework to master the control system but it just never happened after the crash. It was likely under powered as well,
Jack Northrup had some problems on the initial flight of the N-1M in 1941. He had looked at the Horton brothers flying wing glider designs a lot for the design phase of this model. His first wing design from the late 20s, the X-216H, still had tail booms & rudder controls but it was stable. The N-1M was tail-less and became a stable platform after adjustments of the control surfaces but it was under powered. The final design had two Franklin engines and finally had enough power to make it a decent airplane. The Horton brothers actually mastered the design system for there model 229 but the war came to a close before it could go into production. They couldn't get engines for production since they were all going to other projects. It was the first successful jet powered wing design. Jack Northrup's designs were for large recip and jet engine bombers(YB-35 & YB-49 respectively). All of these designs were limited in flight parameters. They weren't good designs for loops or barrel rolls. They had a tendency to flip over if the pilot got too carried away with aerobatics. |
Re: Flying Flathead In 1992 our Regional Group hosted a Western National Meet using Coeur d'Alene as the host resort. A part of the event was a fly in of a Tri Motor owned then by Evergreen Airlines which now has the Hughes plane. I got to ride in that particular Tri-Motor which I believe has since been sold. It was the plane that did the first trans America commercial flight and Amelia E and Charles Lindberg were aboard that first flight.
I also flew in the Aluminum Overcast from Boeing Field a few years ago. Love those round engines. The Tri Motor was like a Harley with wings!! |
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