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BorgWarner Overdrive Questions OK, I’ll be installing a BorgWarner overdrive in my ’51 Ford and I’ve got a few quick questions about it. I’ve read both the service manual and the reference book written by Randy Rundle, so I know roughly 98% about it, but I don’t recall seeing answers to these questions in either document. (Maybe I missed them?:confused:)
Question 1: When overdrive is engaged (at speeds north of 28 mph), it’s not a problem to downshift into second gear, is it? I ask this because there may be situations where you need more power than the wide-open-throttle kickdown to direct drive provides. Question 2: To disengage overdrive, do you have to be completely stopped to pull the control handle out, or can you just press the clutch and do it while driving? Question 3: This may be the toughest one to answer. Since my car has the conventional three-speed transmission, I assume it also has the standard 3.73 rear end (though I haven’t torn it down yet to confirm). I know overdrive-equipped models had a racier 4.10 ratio for better low-speed pick-up. How well will 3.73 gears work with overdrive? I don’t mind a car with long legs for relaxed highway cruising, I just don’t want them to be too long. For reference, the engine will be a mildly built flathead V8 tuned for torque. It will have a 4-inch crank, boosted compression, a mild overbore, an Isky 1007B cam, a stock intake and a reworked Chevy distributor, nothing crazy. Thanks! |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Do not pull that handle out with the car in motion. By do not I mean never. You can either disengage the overdrive with the kickdown switch which is difficult or come to a compete stop which is what I do. I hardly ever pull that lever out. Only if I have a lot of downhills. Uphills I kick out the OD with the gas.
I have the higher gears and I have crossed the rockies a few times as well as some other high mountains. Shifting between gears up or down while the OD is engaged is not a problem. Sometimes I let the OD shift in second and then wind up before going to third. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Hi,
Maybe a sort of different animal but the 50 Plymouth I owned for 37 years had the org stock 6 cyl. I had switched to 3.55 gears then added overdrive. I was very pleased with it. I sure you will be fine with the 3.73 gears and extra stroke and tuning for torque. Steve |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions I have owned lots of overdrives. You can shift the transmission with overdrive engaged just fine.
You can pull the handle out while driving. You need to be in direct drive and be accelerating when you pull it. If in overdrive just hit passing gear and pull the handle. I ran a 'stock '50 Ford many years with overdrive and a 3.73 rear. Never any problems in hills or flat land. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions I would never pull the handle out while driving. Not good . you can push it in to put the car in overdrive anytime. I also use a toggle to turn the o/d system on or off...allows you to "kick down" without flooring the throttle.....and times 2 on what Frank Miller said.
mike |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions A lot of folks may have apprehension about pushing the car into direct drive since it has be forced into the kick down on the throttle but it will not hurt the unit when done properly as 40cpe mentioned. The other alternative is to slow down to drop out speed then accelerate & pull or just pull it out at a stop. It's no big deal.
Pressing the clutch is not the way to go to lock out the overdrive. It has to be under drive with accelerating forward motion to lock it out. My Mercury cars have a 3.92:1 ratio and they work OK. A lighter Ford car should work OK with a 3.78:1 ratio but it will be a taller gear and will affect the points you shift at. I think the reason that the Mercury & Ford cars used the higher numerical ratio was so that the car would function to start out from a stop in 2nd gear under a lot of flat land conditions. This way the drive would be semi-automatic for city driving at speeds from 30 to 40 MPH. A lower numerical ratio may not allow for that type of driving very well. It would certainly be OK for highway speeds though. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Page 6, Section Number 13, of the Borg Warner Overdrive Manual tells how to pull the OD handle out while moving.
http://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/...riveManual.pdf |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions if you are in od. and do not want to floor it to passing gear just turn the key off and back on quick and you are out of od. been doing it for 75 years
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Quote:
Really 75 years? That said, your idea sounds like it would totally work. Unique approach. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Quote:
Wrong! Post #4 is correct! I know from personal experience. Did just that often. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Quote:
Nothing happens if you try to pull the handle out while in overdrive. It simply won't move. Hit the kickdown and simply pull it out while moving. See post#4 and others. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Quote:
Wow! That is excellent information! Everybody that has an overdrive transmission needs to print this, read it and keep it handy. Thank you for sharing! P.S. Note the lubrication warning in large print on the last page. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Glad I asked these questions, lots of great information in this thread. I like Chain Drive's idea of shutting the ignition off for a second to put it back into direct drive without having to floor the gas.
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions hi i meant to say i am on the other side of 75 had a 50 convt, with od. i learned to wreck them and learned to fix them one of the best inventions ever made i still have them in my cars
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions I also understand that the convertible X member frame required a different OD casting than the regular cars. Newc
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Quote:
48 and 50 convertibles require a mechanism to mount the solenoid below the transmission. Other than that they are all the same. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions A person may experience an after fire now and then when turning the ignition key off while driving. A lot depends on how you work the throttle with the key off. A little too much throttle and she will talk to you in loud fashion.
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Quote:
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions google "gl-5 yellow metal safe oil". There is lots of information. If your container doesn't say it's yellow metal safe I would not use it OR I would contact the manufacturer. It seems that some/most modern oils use a type sulfur that doesn't attack brass. But it is hard to get past old ideas. I'm not advocating GL-5 in the transmission, just passing internet information along.
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions I use SAE-50 grade 100 aircraft engine oil (AeroShell W100) with NO Lycoming additive. I could use the blue Swepco 201 SAE-90 that is used in the Robinson helicopter transmissions but the AeroShell W100 is less expensive and works fine for my 1951 Mercury cars.
SAE-50 motor oil is the same viscosity as SAE-90 gear oil due to the different way the two are graded. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions I finally found a two gallon jug of GL4 #90 gear oil in a local "farm" store. I plan to put this in the R10 overdrive, transmission and differential of my F1. I'll return my jug of GL5 to the store. I'm pretty sure this should be safe and should work. Any opinions?
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions The GL-4 gear oil (non-synthetic) in a 90 wt is what we’ve always recommended for the Borg Warner overdrives. If you are filling up the transmission with it in the car, you’ll have to use the filler plug opening on the side of the main gearbox. Since the two housings have common passages for the oil to flow, allow plenty of time for the oil to move over into the OD housing.......then recheck and top off as needed through the same filler plug. Always keep an eye on your transmission oil level. The overdrive housing has a higher sump than the regular gear box, so if you are running a little low in the front housing, it can be dangerously low in the overdrive housing. It’s a very expensive repair if the planetary gear runs dry. We see the results of this often when opening up core transmissions that come into our shop.
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions I dont mean to hijack this thread but its timely as Ive been offered one of these units, its is however expensive and on the other side of the country so I need to make up my mind if its actually worth it.
So just to get my head around this the unit is basically "automatic" as it relies on electrics to do the shifting, you cant mechanically shift this unit down/ up gears? Are they reliable, Parts, anything to look for? I see Mac's warning , Mine does have a drop axle, dont think its bad never had oil come out of the diff, I do have electronic ignition would that be an issue? Thanks |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions Just the overdrive or a complete transmission with the overdrive included? What is your application for it? "Expensive" (in the US at least) makes this sound like not the best deal. We need more information.
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Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions 1 Attachment(s)
No just the bolt in torque tube with the overdrive unit.
Application? extra gear... Guy wants $3K [aud] for it and it would cost me a few hundred to get it here.. Of course its not new , so the risk..:confused: The vast majority of my driving is just too and from work.. :rolleyes: |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions These were fabricated by several people a number of decades ago. They used the Borg Warner components to put an overdrive into the torque tube. The transmission still shifts as always but the overdrive has to have the electric shift components and a lockout control which can be a cable or a lever.
These units were part of the transmission in Ford & Mercury cars after the 1949 model year. The units have to have their safety component or they can be problematic to operate. Most Folks just get a Mitchel overdrive now days. |
Re: BorgWarner Overdrive Questions I'd hate to think of what it would cost me to get a Mitchell here:eek:
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