transmission question
 

i have a 35 cabriolet and i am updating the trans and rearend. the question is do i do an s10 and convert rear end to open drive or keep the current 39 trans and put in a mitchell overdrive just looking for opinions or anyone who might have been faced with the same dilemma.

Re: transmission question
 

A lot is going to depend on how original the car is now and how original you are wanting to keep it.

Re: transmission question
 

either change would be changable for the next owner if you wanted to change it back the mitchell setup just replaces the torque tube and the t5 conversion does not permanently change anything

Re: transmission question
 

T5 conversion usually requires some cutting & removing pieces of center of X member.

What are your reasons for updating your transmission and/or the rear?

Re: transmission question
 

Samson.....Good questions, and several ways to go about it. But you mention the possibility of TWO different, determining parameters....original rear end, OR replacement rear end. First, let me say that I LIKE T5s. You will love the shift qualities of a GOOD T5. Plus, a T5 gives you FOUR forward gear ratios (keeping the RPMs up tightly in the power band), PLUS Overdrive. An original Ford 3-speed only gives you (of course) THREE forward gear ratios, PLUS an Overdrive with the "XPENSIVE" Mitchell units. And that old Ford 3-speed won't shift anywhere near as nicely as a T5....FACT!

The T5 will necessitate removal of that center crossmember "box" (picture below), and the addition of a "Chassis Engineering"-type, bolt-in rear trans mount kit, which also incorporates the two anchor points for the two, slightly-split wishbone arms. It's a reasonably-affordable, easy to install kit in use on a bazillion old Fords. The "center" crossmember box which must be removed, below!

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1473964251

When you say you want to use an "S-10" T5, most folks don't realize the entire meaning of that. The basic T5 design is very adaptable to different configurations to accommodate use in over thirty different auto/truck models that it was originally used in world-wide. ALL T5 MAIN gearboxes are 9-1/4" front to rear. ANY T5 gear set will adapt into ANY T5 main gearbox. ANY tail shaft HOUSING will bolt onto any main gearbox case. The T5 transmissions that came in S-10 pick-ups had a shifter location as far forward as possible on the S-10 tail shaft housing. This allows the shifter location inside an old Ford to be closer to the ORIGINAL Ford shifter location in the floor than say if you used a stock T5 out of a Camaro, or Mustang. The shifter location on those T5s is roughly 10" farther BACK than the shifter on an S-10 T5. BUT......the individual gear ratios inside that stock S-10 transmission's gearbox SUCK! And that gear set is not able to handle near the torque of the gear set in a Camaro V8 T5. Plus, the gear ratio of the Camaro V8 gears is PERFECTION! First gear is 2.95:1, whereas the old Ford 1st gear is usually 2.82....very close! That S-10 T5 will have a 4.03 1st gear in it....an almost useless "granny" gear.

So ideally, what ya want to do is find yourself an '83-'87 Camaro V8 "Non-World-Class (NWC) T5 with the 2.95 1st gear ratio gear set (still fairly common at swap meets). Find yourself an "S-10" NWC-type tail shaft housing along with the S-10 shift rod/lid, and swap them onto the Camaro main case. That way, you can easily adapt to your old Ford mechanical speedometer. That combo will use any 27-spline Chevy yoke going to your drive shaft. The S-10 housing and shift lid with short shift rod in picture below. It will all bolt together. And such a sweet combination when compared with the old Ford 3-speed and Mitchell OD unit!

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.32Ue70...r=1.25&pid=1.7


The Complete Camaro/S-10 Tail Housing Combination

https://th.bing.com/th?id=OP.jI1dYQo...=1.25&pid=21.1

There is one more avenue to consider....a Camaro-type T5 main case and gears with an '83-'87 "Jeep CJ" 4X4 T5 'shorty' tail shaft housing and main shaft adapted to the Ford torque tube. In fact, a friend and I did the one seen below on his '35 Ford pick-up (same chassis as your cabriolet). It's rather involved, but shows what can be done with all Borg-Warner factory parts to assemble a very short T5. You can read about our complete project by clicking on the link below. And if I can answer any more questions for you, I'm game! DD

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...T5+TORQUE+TUBE


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...6&d=1475624855

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...2&d=1477859166






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Re: transmission question
 

Another option is a T170 ,4th gear is overdrive.It already has the shifter in a good location.

Re: transmission question
 

i did not realize you had to cut the floor and the frame.

Re: transmission question
 

i want to be able to cruise at 65-70 with lower engine rpm

Re: transmission question
 

I have done it and yes you have to remove the center saddle and then split the wishbone.Its a tight fit.You barely have room to fill or ad fluid.I did not cut the floor but had to relocate the shifter hole on the cover plate.

Re: transmission question
 

I think it depends on how much you want to pay for the convience of an Over drive. How much of the work can you do yourself,
Thetorque tube unit is very reliable and works just fine as an OD. Initial cost is abit high, but any other conversion isn't cheap either.
I like the T-5 and a spicer 35 rear this upgrades the drivetrain and improves the ride quality. It also offers Posi
This project will be a personal preference one.

Re: transmission question
 

Samsonized, check out this previously posted thread by someone who wanted to update their 35/36 Ford for similar reasons, and note the posts I made regarding changes I made on my 35 fordor sedan for the same reasons you want to make changes.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280032

Re: transmission question
 

has one one used a mitchell conversion

Re: transmission question
 

There are a number of threads on here on OD conversions.

Re: transmission question
 

V8: Rather than removing the X Member center piece, why not cut it out with the laser even with the edges of the top and bottom frame flange. This would leave the riveted rails of the removed X member in place providing a little more rigidity. Grind edges smooth.

Re: transmission question
 

In most cases you have to add a plate(s) back in and use the rivet holes for the bolts. I think it really needs to come out, much easier way to go.

Re: transmission question
 

Besides changing the R&P, the Mitchell is most likely the least amount of modification and work if you want to spend the money($3450).A fellow here bought a '35 coupe with a Mitchell OD conversion and is happy with it.He has 2 floor shift levers to deal with.

Re: transmission question
 

The Mitchell should be a bolt in, no mods needed and can be had with either a separate shift lever or a cable to actuate. JMO Probably an afternoon of work vs major mods.
Paul in CT

Re: transmission question
 

What's the cost of a Mitchell OD today? I have no interest....just asking for a friend.

Re: transmission question
 

Why not rebuild the transmission with the 29/15 gear combo and go with a 3:54 rear end ratio. I have that in heavier sedans and I can cruise all day at 65 mph with ease. Plus it's a heck of a lot cheaper and less work. Both of which I like.

Re: transmission question
 

Macs has them listed for $3445.99 and that is dropped shipped from the mfg.

Re: transmission question
 

Wow, I priced them a little over 10 years ago and I believe they were selling a ~ &1400.00 -1500.00.
I'm very happy with '46-'48 gears, 29 tooth cluster/15 tooth input gear in transmission, and 3.54:1 gears in the rear. I can cruise all day long @ 65 mph

Re: transmission question
 

John,When I checked a little over a yr ago they were $2200. Inflation.

Re: transmission question
 

Like JSeery said, you really need to remove the center section. The rear tail shaft housing is bulbous enough that it gets into the area where the cup for the wishbone ball is located. The good kits employ a lower plate like pictured below that acts to capture the split wishbone ends, as well as support the trans mount. It bolts-in utilizing original rivet holes. A secondary, crescent-shaped plate can also be bolted-in across the top of the transmission, connecting the tops of the X-members if desired. Some kits utilize it....some don't! DD

https://content.speedwaymotors.com/P...31df6b815.webp

The upper crescent-shaped piece I speak of looks similar to the upper bracket in this picture with six mounting holes.

https://th.bing.com/th?id=OP.r%2b80n...=1.25&pid=21.1













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Re: transmission question
 

Don't forget that to correctly put the bungs in the wishbone for the rod ends the front end should be removed ,cut yoke off and weld them in.I did mine under the car on my back- a challenge.

Re: transmission question
 

Question for guys who've used a Mitchell: Due to the size of it (installed in the torque tube), would he have to modify the floor pans in the area where the OD is added?

My foggy, Saturday morning, non-coffee infused brain seems to remind me that there can be issues in certain years of cars - due to the transmission tunnel in the floor pan not having enough clearance for the OD.

Who knows the scoop on this???

Re: transmission question
 

I think the need to "modify" the floor pan depends on how much weight is carried in the back seat or if vehicle lowered. I may also be wrong.
Paul in CT

Re: transmission question
 

I put a Mitchell in my '47 about fifteen years ago. Unloaded it was fine, but if I had a few passengers it would bottom out, so I wound up modifying the floor under the back seat. I think in a '35 you would probably have to cut the floor also.

Re: transmission question
 

There's no two ways about it....it's a sizeable rig. I've always questioned that much weight, unsupported, hanging right in the middle of that long torque tube assembly. DD

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.KrQACg...r=1.25&pid=1.7

Re: transmission question
 

Thanks! There would surely be issues in cars like a 34 Ford, the floorpans would have to be modified.

Too bad the thing is so dang big, square and ugly (just saying). I bet somebody could take a modern set of parts (like out of a Tremec 5 speed) and create a much better product. BUT - you'd never sell enough of them to be worth the design/production investment.

Re: transmission question
 

Why not consider a Volvo overdrive unit? It's smaller than the Mitchell and just as strong. I've only seen one in a '39 and it didn't require modification of the floor.
Check out this thread started by Steve Kennedy.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...olvo+overdrive

Ken

Re: transmission question
 

.

Here are pictures of Automotive Stud's installation of the Mitchell 10 years ago in his '47. He said the unit cleared the floor.....until you hit a bump! DD

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1293892891


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...2&d=1293892915


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...3&d=1293892915

Re: transmission question
 

v8: The quality and pertinence of the photos you post are ALWAYS excellent. Always enjoy seeing them on any topic discussed.

Re: transmission question
 

You're gonna make me blush! But, thank you Man! DD

Re: transmission question
 

Now don't be blushing V8Coopster . . . it may not be good or your image! LOL

Re: transmission question
 

Just a Wild-Assed-Guess (WAG), but you MIGHT be able to get by with severely trimming that center "box" on frame to get that T5 (with "S-10" tail) in there. Below is a picture of the stock trans (Thanks Kube)and it's proximity to the BOX between "X"-rails, while keeping in mind that the T5 with the S-10 rear tail housing is (I believe ) 25-1/2" long....front of case to rear of tail housing. DD

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...8&d=1563038743

Re: transmission question
 

If you want to cruise at those speeds then the brakes may have to receive some attention if they have not already been done. I have been involved with the fit up of Mitchell overdrives on an original 36 Ford sedan and a 36 Ford coupe and both cars required the rear of the trans tunnel to be cut and an enlarged section to be welded in there. Mitchell overdrives have two different ways to operate them, a flex cable set up or a rod and lever shifter set up. The cable is easier to fit but the pull knob and extension in the cabin is a bit awkward looking. The lever shifter and rod is a neat set up but takes a bit more engineering to fit it. Nothing is easy. Regards, Kevin.

Re: transmission question
 

I run a Mitchell in my truck. No issue of course. Used the lever. It looks great on the floor. Took me a day to do it. Would consider one with my 36 coupe. Floors good now, so that might be my only obstacle. A super great unit. Love it

Re: transmission question
 

Coop weren't you working on a f150 torque tube trans? I could be wrong.

Re: transmission question
 

Nope...We created this short T5 using a Jeep CJ main shaft and 4X4 tail shaft housing to couple-up with a torque tube....ALL stock Borg-Warner transmission parts, with a couple of home-made aluminum adapter rings and a specialty, made-up spline adapter. Seen here in Heard's '35 pick-up. The COMPLETE T5 itself is only 15-1/4" long. DD

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1477858680

Re: transmission question
 

Oopsie!