Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

There was a thread on here about a T5 application where a member here had turned down the stock Ford throw out bearing collar to accept an S10 or Camaro styled throw out bearing.

I cannot for the life of me find this info or the author of that thread - can anyone give me any help on this?

For those who have inquiring minds, I am running an early 90s Camaro diaphram p-plate, Ford p-plate (using a Ford T5Z), and I am using a modified 39-style mechanical linkage pedal setup for a 32 frame made by Industrial Chassis Inc. - here's the link to the pedals:

http://www.industrialchassisinc.com/...ake-and-clutch

Thanks for any help you can give ....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

What you are calling a bearing collar is called the front retainer on the transmission if that helps any. Any idea what the ID of the throwout bearing is and the OD of the front retainer? If it is a T5z front retainer you are using they are steel vs aluminum on the other T5s.

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

I have an S10 front retainer on the T5Z (they are interchangeable) so the Camaro or S10 throw out bearing will not be an issue. The stock Ford collar for the stock Ford t-out bearing is a modified unit from Cornhuskers - it all ready has a sleeve to allow it to ride on the S10/Camaro front retainer.

The thread I am looking for has some specs as to how the collar was cut down to use the S10/Camaro t-out bearing and some other info that will make my modification for my application that much easier ....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

OK, got ya. I just went and measured a T5z I have setting in the garage, it is 1.435 vs 1.375 for the S10 if anyone is interested. Not totally sure what you are looking for yet, is it the length the retainer has to be cut to? I don't remember the thread you are referring to (probably will when I see it! :) ) so can't be of much help.

Have you tried contacting Corkhuskers? I have always found them to be supper helpful.

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Just did a review of some Barn T5 post/threads and you (Tom) are included in almost all of them and the one providing most of the information!!!! LOL :)

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

I comment on what I know and have experience in. Since I am in virgin territory for me, I am now the student!

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

This is the one I built. PM me if you want additional info.

[IMG]http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/...psvzuhfsxz.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

If it's of any help, my setup is like that pic, but I use a Falcon throwout bearing with a curved face to suit the diaphragm fingers on my clutch. I started out with the flat bearing but it never worked very well with the diaphragm clutch. The carrier has a Teflon sleeve riveted in to take up the difference in retainer snout diameters.

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

38Bill - that is the pic I was looking for - thank you!

Bassman - I am using an early 90s diaphragm 10.5" p-plate and the same/similar t-out bearing to match the p-plate. I want to do exactly what 38Bill has done.

What I need to know from either one of you is what is the working distance between the diaphram p-plate fingers and the front face of the t-out bearing when the clutch is not engaged or not in use? This way I know how far back/forward the t-out bearing needs to reside in the carrier?
Thank you guys ....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Tom, I made mine the same length (from the back of the carrier to the front of the bearing) as the stock Ford combo. It works but only just. I am using '39 pedals in my '38 and the clutch pedal arm bottoms out on the frame before the pedal is flat to the floor. Looks like your new clutch pedal set up is adjustable so that should be helpful. This wasn't a problem with my stock pressure plate but I had to adjust the throw-out bearing closer to the diaphragm PP than I would normally like. It has gotten better as the new clutch has a few miles of wear on it. Love the new clutch, it is very smooth.

PS:Some winter I may notch out the frame for the extra pedal arm clearance as it gives me an good excuse to get a plasma cutter.

[IMG]http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/...pswu5ld7qp.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

On my roadster I lengthened the arm of the 39 pedal setup for the clutch rod so that allowed greater adjustment since the arm angles towards the rear of the car. Might work for you as well.

Thanks again Bill - I think I will give myself a little wiggle room for the t-out placement and I will also extend the clutch arm on my aftermarket 39 pedal setup as well ....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Sorry Tom, that is the same set-up I use except I use the stock Ford front retainer over a T5z front retainer. Guess I didn't understand what you were looking for. Looks like you have some good inputs.

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Tom, can you post a picture of the extended arm on the '39 pedal setup? Either a pic of the one on the roadster or the one you are modifying now.

thanks, Gene

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Ok - not a great pic and I forgot the 39 pedal setup does not angle back much.

The piece I added is like an upside down "J" pointing towards the back. The pics are the best I can do ..... hope they help ......

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Thanks everyone - this is again, as always when you ask for info here, the Fordbarn at its best!!

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Thanks for the pics Tom

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Sorry - clear as mud I know but I think you can get the idea of what I did. Without doing this I had little to no adjustments.

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

OK Bill - I've been studying this picture and some things just do not make sense to me. First, the stock t-out bearing would reside all the way back in the housing so how is your setup have your t-out bearing in the same location (understand that my experience with the stock setup is the 39-40 setup)? Also, I can't for the life of me figure out how you do not have enough throw with the 39 pedal setup with the t-out bearing so far forward? Is your adjustable rod adjustable enough?

Maybe a pic of your setup underneath?

Thanks - just trying to set the stage for what I need to do .....

Thanks for your help!

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

The stock throw out bearing is much thicker than the S10 bearing I used (see the photo below). In order to be the same assembled length the S10 bearing had to be forward as shown in the photos above.

I believe my issue with clutch travel has to do with the distance the new PP forks have to travel to fully release and the fact that the '39 pedals I am using can hit the frame thus limiting travel adjustment. I plan to do some modification this winter to fix that. Could be all I have to do is lengthen the throw out bearing assembly to gain a little more travel before the pedal bottoms out. (Looks like your aftermarket pedals have a shaft that has splines so they can be adjusted for height independently from the throw out bearing adjustment. If mine had this option I wouldnt be having a problem)

The S10 bearing I used was a higher end part (RAM). Instead of the stamped metal hub it has a one piece steel hub and it does not have the bump on the hub as many of the other S10 bearings have. There is a flange on the back end that I had to grind off to push it into the old hub. I also had to cut down the front end of the old hub to get the length I wanted. (If I hadn't cut down the length it probably would have worked perfectly but at the time I wanted to match the stock length. Live and learn!)

[IMG]http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/...pskmfrwl1h.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

From what I understand it takes a lot less travel with a diaphram p-plate to disengage the clutch than the Borg and Beck - only about 5/8-3/4 inch is needed max. So, what my measurements come out with I can probably just trim the original carrier back about 1/8" and just set the Camaro t-out bearing right in front and tack it to the carrier. That will give me 3/4" of travel and I can adjust it tighter if need be. The carrier I am using all ready has the S10 sleeve built in - it's from Cornhusker ....

I hope to be good to go with this setup or at least it will be a good starting point .....

Thank you for all your help!

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

I wanted to update you all on my progress. Presently I have the stock 39 style t-out bearing setup in place save for the t-out bearing itself. The t-out bearing I am using is an early 90s Camaro unit that matches the diaphram p-plate I am using. I have not modified the stock t-out bearing carrier - I have just placed the Camaro bearing in front of the stock carrier. Everything lines up, has clearance, and will work very nicely IF I can get the center 1 1/16" 10 spline center in the clutch to be about 1/2" longer towards the tranny. That will give it a better byte on the splines of the main shaft of the tranny. I presently have only about 1/2" on it and less when the clutch is engaged. Fort Wayne Clutch is working on a solution and I hope to hear from them Monday .....

So - to the pictures ....

First pic - in case you do not know, I am using the Cornhusker adapter and kit. However, the hole for the return spring was too far forward (that is the tab with the hole in it), and left play in the cross shaft arm that could have resulted in the carrier popping out of the embrace of the clutch fork ....
Second pic - Johnrodz had come over to visit and suggested I drill a hole and run a cotter pin into the adapter to move the attach point further back, resulting in a tighter setup and no chance for the clutch fork to disengage itself from the carrier ....
Third pic - this is the t-out bearing "at rest" and the blue line represents the contact point of the fingers of the diaphram p-plate
Fourth pic - this is where the t-out with reside once the clutch pedal is pressed
Fifth pic - when everything is all together, this is where the clutch disk will sit on the main shaft of the tranny
Sixth pic - this shows how far "off" the splines of the main shaft the disk will be. The disk can reside as in the fifth picture if the center of the clutch disk has its main splined center be about 1/2" bigger going towards the center, leaving 1" of that center on the untapered portion of the splined end of the main shaft.

Hopefully, this is not clear as mud!

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Comments?

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

On mine there is play in the cross arm fork until the clutch pedal linkage is attached and that puts tension on it so the fork can not pop off. I believe that is typical. I think you really need it to be attached to the clutch pedal in the car to be able to see whats really going to work with your pedal travel. That's why I stuck with the stock overall length of the hub and TO bearing. It appears to me that yours is way to long to work. Can you shorten the stock hub like I did? What holds the Chevy bearing to the hub?

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

I appreciate your comments - your working setup is really what has pushed me to get this accomplished .....

You are absolutely right though - I need to bolt everything together to see how she works. The t-out bearing will just be tack welded to the carrier in three spots and I can cut down the carrier for more clearance so I am good there. My main concern now is the clutch disk - hopefully Fort Wayne Clutch can come up with something .... if not I may have to be a bit more creative for that center piece .....

I will keep you posted ....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Keeping you informed .....

Well, there is no clutch disk out there as per Fort Wayne Clutch to solve my problem so they are sending me another center piece. Once I mock everything up and determine what I need for length, I will weld the two pieces of center section together, trim it to size and send it to Fort Wayne Clutch for them to make a new clutch disk for me.

This is breaking new ground I know - I have my good friend Dave Havlir at House of Fab who is an excellent tig welder and, vs starting all over again, this is my only option at this time. Nothing ventured, nothing gained ......

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

I did a full mock up of the clutch setup which proved what I had suspected about the clutch disk residing only about 1/2" on the untapered splines (vs the 1" it should be on). I will talk to Fort Wayne Clutch one more time regarding some specific measurements. I did receive their center and I must say it is a lot heavier duty than what the cheap Chinese disk I have has. There is a clutch disk place in Richmond I will present my problem to as well. So, that portion is still in the works but .....

The t-out setup is going to work just fine - I have at least 3/8" clearance between my t-out bearing and the fingers of my p-plate ( check pic). No machining of the stock t-out carrier is needed. I also put some paint on the tranny main shaft through the fingers of the pressure plate to where the clutch disk sits on the shaft to determine the clutch disk position when not changing gears.

Here are some pics - you can see where I thought the clutch disk would reside on the splined shaft and I was pretty much spot on ..... I will keep you posted on this.

On a side note, my project as a whole suffered setback when my frame was discovered not to be straight yet again. I was trying to square up the front and rear suspension and it kept being off on the diagonal measurements. So, my buddy, jacksandeuces on the HAMB, who has built many 32s, came over and verified things were not right. He graciously offered to put my frame on his 32 frame jig after labor day .... that's hot rodding .....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

The welding of the two center hub pieces failed miserably - the two metals had so many impurities they both oozed oil when we tried to weld them. Now I am looking into making a center hub at the length I need or shaving of one or both of the adapters to get the difference I need ....

Nothing is ever easy .......

Diaphram Pressure Plate and a T5
 

Another update - a buddy of mine told me that some clutch disks from his racing days were made with shims or spacers to move the center hub of the clutch disk closer towards the tranny or further way, depending as their combination needed. I will go back to the local clutch shop in Richmond and see what they have to say ..... he used a riveted center hub like I presently have ...

Here are some pics of the weld process - to me it looks like a stick weld and my buddy confirmed it saying it was probably a nickel plated stick rod with the flux removed from the outside of it and then used in a tig weld.

If these updates are not relevant to anyone, I will stop - they are kind of off topic but I thought they might be of some interest to those doing or thinking of doing a similar motor/trans combo or run into a similar situation ..... you can PM me with your comments if you like ....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Tom, Keep going. I love seeing how others attack and solve problems.

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Hey,c thanks - but if you follow me I tend to take a kind of erratic course! I do try to think outside the box however, I am not afraid to fail (just disappointed and frustrated when I do), and there's ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat!

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

is this what you guys are looking for, it's what I used on my '40 t5/8ba...

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Search...ide%20Bushings

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Thanks but no - we are trying to mate a Chevy p-plate to a Ford clutch disk for a Ford T5 trans. This requires a special t-out bearing setup, which is resolved, but the clutch disk is only on about 1/2" of splines on the main shaft to the trans. I need 3/4" plus of byte on the splined or else I will just shear off the main shaft splines on a hard launch.

Mush of what is out there is for a Chevy pattern T5 - the Ford is different, takes a different adapter. My tabs usxa T5Z which is the trans Tremec based on.

Read back in the thread and you will get more info .....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

A long day today, talking to many people about my problem after the long weekend. The result is that I am going to shave down my T5 adapter and what ever I get out of that is what I get - looks like a minimum of 1/4", maybe even up to 3/8". This was suggested by Russell Martin, the nail head guru I have ordered my parts from.

I ordered a McLeod clutch disk, 673-260130, so I can mock everything up, make my measurements, and know how much to shave off. I will also check my t-out bearing clearances and see if I need to shave the stock t-out bearing holder ....

Minimum I am hoping for is 3/4" of a byte - I would be ecstatic with 7/8-1". We shall see .....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

This sounds like a much better approach to me. Will you have enough clearance on the end of the input shaft and the pilot bearing?

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

That is why I need to do a mock up and take careful measurements ....... I will keep you posted .....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Got my new clutch disk in and I really like the way the center hub is mounted, moving it closer to the tranny, in essence helping to solve my problem. I will mock things up tomorrow to see how much of a shave I need on the adapter....

Re: Looking for a Particular T5 Thread
 

Finally got a chance to check things out and it looks like I gained a little more than a 1/16th with this new clutch disk and I will shave the adapter just about 3/8". That will give me almost an inch of byte. I can't ask for anything more than that. I will have to shave the stock ford t-out bearing carrier about 3/8" as well.

The shave on the adapter is about where the black line is, even with the slight indentation on the adapter ....