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Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor 1930 Model A Tudor
Restored +/- 20 years ago. It's been sitting but runs. Very cool patina which I really like. I went over the body with a fine toothed comb. Very solid and looks to be all original sheet metal. Here's what it needs according the the vintage car dealer that has it: Carb Leaks fuel Won't idle long without the choke pulled partially open Low beams do not work High beams do not work Rear parking light does not work Brake light does not work Need Brake shoes all around Needs emergency brake shoes Needs Oil Change No coolant in system Needs new + battery cable Vac wipers do not work. Gas tank has a bunch of crap in it. (It also needs tires but that's not part of the deal) They want $4000 for the car. They said they would fix everything listed for no less than $1500 to no more than $2000. So all in I could have a running driving safe A for $6000 or less. Is that a good price? My time is a factor as I travel a lot on business, so having it running driving and stopping safely would be a plus. I think it may be but I'd like a second, third…..20th opinion. BTW: It does not have the original engine in it BUT, it does come with the original engine out of the car. Thanks in advance. PS: They already put a new battery in it. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Welcome. 4K seems in the ball park you may be able to dicker with them a bit. Here is my 2 cents worth:
-The electrical can be fixed in a few hours with about $100 in wiring. -The brake system will cost around 1500-2000 to completely rebuild. -The vacuum wipers are not required as RainX will be your friend. -A rebuilt engine will run you about 4-5K done right. -A gunked up fuel tank can be cleaned out (assuming no cancer) but it will just take you awhile. Do these people know how to work on a Model A? They are simple but have their quirks for an 80 yr old car. Where do you live as local club member may go with you to look the car over. Mike |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor They do have Model A service experience.
It's an awkward situation. All my friend that are in the Model A club locally are better friends with the 2 guys that own the dealership. I guess that could work both ways. $4000 is the "dickered" price. Thanks for the reply. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor i doubt they can properly fix everything for 2K without half assing it..the carb may be screwed from a contaminated gas tank to boot. most model A brake systems need more than shoes usually drums also as a minimum.. since your time is valuable and you want a good running reliable car i would spend more and move on. probably has a cooling system issue also..
IMO your buying a can of worms beware and educated... good luck post some pics if u have |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Another question you need to ask is how is the wood in the car? the roof and around the windows all have wood. Does it drive halfway decently, any noise from the tranny or rear end? I assume you work on vintage Vespas so will most of the skills to work on this car.
Mike |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor I can't speak to the wood as the interior was finished when restored.
I'll be driving it Saturday, it was raining today. They do not have a ton of info on the car as it was purchased from the estate of the prior owner. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor This dealer is fairly reputable but not cheap so I'm thinking they have already inspected what is needed to make it right.
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor You can't buy a lot for that money first of all. Secondly remember it is a Tudor which is entry level Model A and does not command the same amount of dollars as the much sportier models. It would've a good idea to post several photographs before you sign the deal. There are a few experts on this site that can assist you greatly. Good luck! Wayne
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor I think it sounds like a good deal. It basically needs 3 things to be running right. Clean the whole fuel system, fix the wiring, and fix the brakes. Plus it needs new tires, but I still think it sounds good. Pictures would be the deciding factor though.
If the body, paint, and interior are good, that's a lot of money saved, plus a lot of down time. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor The body paint and interior are all sound.
I could find no evidence of bondo anywhere and like I said I love the patina. I'll get pictures on Saturday morning. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor what do you mean by no coolant
just water? or empty |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Mitch: I guess I should have said that the cooling system has been drained.
The car was put into storage a while back, then the owner died. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor so it sat for many years empty
was it refilled and thoroughly tested yet.. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Mitch: I do not know yet. I'm going to get into the "weeds" about the repairs tomorrow.
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor the gas tank being full of crap is a very major concern and usually a deal breaker for me.
wonder how they plan to rectify that |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Strange the brake shoes are all shot, I wonder if they checked or just noticed that it didn't stop like disk brakes? I would be worried that I wouldn't get $2000 worth of proper repairs out of a shop like that, I don't know them but my level of trust with things like that has been dropped to almost zero over the years. The 4K sounds decent especially if you decided to work on it yourself which is part of having one.
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor PICTURES< PICTURES< PICTURES>
"Restored 20 +/- years ago" If so, how/why are so many things shot/worn etc? Patina How's the paint/interior? Paul in CT 1930 Model A Tudor Restored +/- 20 years ago |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor @Sunnybrook: I'm wondering the same thing myself. I'm really leaning towards getting it towed home and checking it out myself.
I guess I'll look for "how to rebuild your model A brakes" videos on youtube. @1931 flamingo: No pics till Saturday. As far as why stuff is worn…. who knows? If it was restored then used a lot, then stored, that could be 1 answer. I know what I'm looking at from a body, interior, frame condition. The motor looks simple enough. The brakes give me pause. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Quote:
The motor is pretty simple, as long as the block is not cracked.... |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor The brakes may just need a CORRECT adjustment. Many don't know how to work on mechanical brakes. You can also look at how much of the adjuster shaft is showing on the back side of the backing plates. If they are screwed in a lot, then you won't see as much shaft showing, and that would be a good sign the brakes are worn out. At any rate it wouldn't take much work to pull a front drum and inspect the front brakes.
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor My dad told me if your finding excuses to justify walk.
You can easy put 5k to make it a real runner. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor If you are as busy as you say with work, I would pass, spend a bit more for a fine running car to enjoy. you dont sound like you have the time, nor want to work on the car.
You need to determine if you want a project or a nice driveable car. Of course you will then spend more money................. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Well, FWIW I paid 4k for a super solid, non running Tudor in 2001. I know times change but similar in that it was a frame up amateur restoration from the early 70s. I got decent paint, aged but decent LB interior but overall the car was in need of a lot of TLC. Also in 15 + years of tracking these cars the values have changed a lot less than some othe types of cars, at least IMO. Most people thought it was a decent deal. More than once I was told that the rodders would be happy to get it for 4k if I didn't want to put it back on the road.
Was ultimately into it for around 12k or so, got 10k for it in trade on another car. The biggest expenses were pro brakes, front end and replacement of top including wood, top and headliner. The rest was done over time at home. My approach at the time was: 1) get the car running, use it around the neighborhood and get familiar with Model As. 2) Initially wanted to do more of the "bigger stuff" myself but also wanted to use the car for longer distances, etc. bottom line - I decided I valued getting the safety items addressed sooner rather than later as time was limited, and figured I would let the shop deal with the top at the same time. 3) continue to handle mechanical and cosmetic projects over time of ownership. When it was time to move on it was not a money maker but not too bad either - a fun car and I traded being into it for a little more than it was worth for the ability to enjoy quickly. My point is DIY vs. a pro may make sense but with these cars it will likely put you in a situation of a larger investment than it is worth in the end. Some folks can tolorate that while others would not go that route. It was rewarding to revive a 30 year old restoration and while not perfect I am sure new owner is happy with the overall looks and driveability of the car. So how you approach the repairs is a personal choice - time, money and desire to use vs. work on it are all factors to consider. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Actually what ronn said. At the time it made sense but today I would spend a little more and enjoy immediately.
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor why does a restored car have Patina? Why does a restored car need that much work? I'd probably spend 4K for an all orginal car that needed everything and had not ever been messed with (becoming rarer every day), but will run from someone's half assed restoration.
Your always ahead buying a car which runs drives and stops the way it should. YOur still going to need to put money into it, you always do. As it sits now you might have 12K into it and still have an old restoration. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor also a dealer always makes 50% profit or they wouldn't be in business. I'd rather put that mark up in my pocket by buying from a private party.
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor @ oliverguy:
I guess because stuff happens. A car that was restored 20-30 years ago then used would have patina. My 1967 Galaxie that I restored in 1991 has patina now simply because I use it….a lot. Who knows? Suffice it to say, from a body and interior stand point the car is nice and well done. I need to do more homework and evaluate the mechanics. I work a lot with Alfa Romeos. Buying an Alfa with a good body out weighs the mechanics everyday. Typically, anything mechanical can be fixed. This car is on consignment, the dealer does not own it directly. We'll see tomorrow. My "A" buddy is going with me to look at it. We'll see what happens. Standby. Thanks. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Quote:
Charlie Stephens |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor we love pictures
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor @CharlieStephens:
I can only assume that put the battery in correctly as the car runs (or am I wrong?) @Mitch: I'll have pictures tomorrow. I'm going there tomorrow morning at 7AM. They are going to let me play around with it a bit. So I'm going to put anti freeze and water in it and see what happens. I'm going to try to get it running and drive it around the parking lot. That should give me a chance to try the brakes. We'll see. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Quote:
Charlie Stephens |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor @Charlie: Thanks I'll check that.
They did note that the + battery cable needed to be replaced. These guys are supposedly reputable so I'll hope for the best. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor No they are not going to be fixing the brakes and all the other stuff for just $2000.
They may make it work different, but safe? To fix brakes properly you need specialized tooling and a lot of new parts. If they do not have the tools to arc the shoes to the drums and replace the drums with cast iron then it is not fixed. They may sort of stop, but there is a reason why a lot of people complain about the poor braking ablitliy of the A. It is important to know and understand. The Model A was designed from the factory to run 60 MPH. The Model A has very good brakes (the limits are the tires) and can stop very good. The Model A is a very confident car to run 60 MPH with factory parts. If they tell you the car is only good for 45 MPH do not let them work on it. Do not believe anyone telling you different. Do not believe me, research the history of the car and how people drove them. You will have a new respect for the cars abilities. I believe $4000 for a running driving tudor that is not rusty (and has not had bad fixes) is a good deal if it is not completely wore out. BUT you must expect to have to redo most all the mechanical parts to have a safe to drive car. This can be done over time as you get the cash and understand how to do a proper rebuild. For a perspective, the Model A was mostly a precision built car. That was how Ford was able to build them so cheap and be so durable. You have to restore that precision to get a very very reliable and capable car. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Keep us posted vespaholic.
On the patina question, I see it all the time with Model As. By now the restorations on many of these cars can be 30, 40, 50 years old. I know on the tudor I had the guy did the work over a couple years finishing in '73. A decent job, painted frame, pro paint, etc. but at some point in his 30 years of ownership it moved lower on the priority list and was stored outside long enough to lead to the top drying out and cracking. Stuff happens. In terms of locating an original car needing a restoration it is not always the best choice. A car needing everything is fine for the right person as is a high point full restoration on the other end of the spectrum. In thinking about this, I think each situation is individual but governed by the same few basics, which can differ with the car being considered as well as the owner. What are one's mechanical abilities/desire to do some, all or none of the work the car may need. How much time does one have (good to be realistic about this one) to devote to the hobby How much money does one have/want to devote to the hobby? Also, what's the end goal of the car. With the Tudor I had, I didn't have a lot of money to buy a fully restored car but I had enough to justify paying someone to do some heavy lifting as time was not as plentiful. High point car, heck no, but we put a lot of miles on it. I note that because if you are considering having the shop or another one do the work for you, you might be in the same situation now. I can see the logic of negotiating some or all of the work. Not to worry, there is always some little task to do on a Model A! Having had a couple of show cars one thing I love about older restorations is the freedom of worrying about any little catastrophe like a stone chip or kid climbing up on the runningboard. |
Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor To Kevin's point whether you use a shop or DIY, whoever inspects brakes & front end should know their stuff. We did not want to worry about safety, and that's most of it right there, along with good tires and shocks (makes a difference in cornering).
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Still no pictures ??? Wayne
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor If the body is nice then $4000.is a good buy,at least where I am.I know what I can get for A's here,but they mostly go to rodders.I sold a solid 31 Tudor a few years ago,it belonged to an old family friend.Solid,straight,but needed babbit and brake work.He drove it around town that way for over 40 years.A street rodder bought it,and then gave me the chassis after.I sold it for the woman for $6500.The A guys wanted me to get it running,take it for a ride,so they could evaluate and make an offer.It hadn't been run in three years.The rod shop that bought it asked if I would air up the tires and get it out of the barn so they could get up to it with a ramp truck.
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor Yep, when I bought my tudor it was my first Model A and my logic for spending four grand on a non running car was that it was rock solid, and fairly presentable in addition to my sense that it would not take much to get it running based on a little trust in the local guy I bought it from. . While I might prefer not too, I knew I could sell to a rodder in a heartbeat, for at least that, so no risk. Carb was dirtly - once home it took 15 minutes to get it running!!
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor 4k with good body sounds good. body work can really eat up a lot of project time and should be avoided. now the 2000 work and solve all those problems seems cheap for a shop charging mechanic hours. but they may have a guy they now does good fast work. sounds good and at those prices i dont think you can get screwed with the deal.
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Re: Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor but again if you have the money i have seen some really nice cars in my area for 10k or less ready to go. i only bring this up because my A was purchased by my grandfather. in similar shape as the 4k deal. And he never got the time to do much with it. It left me a great start to a really nice basic driver car because i would rather spend every available minute in the garage. But i feel bad for him as he wanted to work on the car and have something he could take the pride in working on. here is a craigslist add in my area. this just jumped to 9500 from 7500 im guessing the guy wants 7500 and was getting 5500 offers so he thought raising the price would help him get the 7500 he set out for. https://saginaw.craigslist.org/cto/5289391933.html
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