Tea pot carb help
 

Have a 52 Merc with a tea pot carb. Will idle perfect but die shortly after giving it throttle. Found the diaphram cracked for the power valve. Currently looking for a replacement - hopefully will correct the situation. I'm totally ignorant on this style carb and see no point in replacing but I'm open to an alternative replacement if it's more reliable and cost effective. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks, Tom
PS. Running an electric pump with a regulator set at 2 1/2 psi. Fuel tank has been drained and is clean.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

This is just a guess, and maybe somebody will chime in who knows for sure---- if it was mine I'd get a power valve for a Holley 94 and put it in there. See if the valve has numbers on it.

As for a replacement carb, a Rochester 2GC or a Stromberg WW will bolt on to the 4 bolt manifold, or you can swap manifolds and put a 3 bolt 97 or 94 on it.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

The early Rochester 2GC carburetor that was found on 265 and 283 Chevies of the '50s and '60s will bolt right onto your manifold, and a lot of flathead guys with the Merc 4-bolt manifold have taken advantage of that fact and really love the way they run, and their simplicity. They can still be found at swap meets and on eBay. Rebuild kits are available. See the link below! DD

http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/t...Jet-index.html

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Sounds like the Rochester may be the ticket. Just didn't want to write off the tea pot without giving it a chance. Ironically I just donated a 2GC to one of the guys. The 3 bolt intake with a 97 or 94 looks like my second option. Thanks again...

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

If you change to a 97 or a Rochester you'll have to swap out the ignition. 8BA type 94 is ok, it's the loadamatic ignition on there and must have a loadam carb with the vacuum line half way up the back.
Martin.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

will the 2GC work off the later model chevy?

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

No! Even though they look like the same animal, they are physically larger in almost every dimension.........certainly won't bolt-on to the Merc flatty. DD

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

If you use an early 2GC, you'll find that it has to mounted backwards so the linkage etc. ends up on the proper side. I have one on a Canadian aluminum Merc manifold. While the bolt pattern is the same, the throttle bores on the Merc manifold are quite a bit smaller. I bored mine out to match the carb.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

This is just my opinion, but you should consider keeping the original teapot 2 bbl. If you change, you just set off a chain reaction of work, jury rigging and money being spent to change things like, air cleaner, linkage and ignition advance. There are kits and individual parts available for you're teapot carb.

Also, Mike51Merc suggested using a power valve from a Holley 94 type carb. This is not possible. Completely different animal and design.

If you are interested in carb work, I can help.

Sal

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Top float Holley carbs work OK for the stocker but they are sensitive to heavy handed maintenance. I've restored a few of the older 885 shrouded models and they work well and are reliable if a person uses care to disassemble/reassemble with tools that fit the purpose well. The castings can get warped easily if torqued too tight or if they get dropped during handling. They will leak like a sieve if things don't fit up well. With the bowl on top a person can't afford a leak. Towering inferno is not a moniker to be taken lightly. They burn good if they ever get started.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Tubman. Are you saying the aluminum Canadian intake has bigger throttle bore? I have one of those intakes hanging in my shop for 10yr's or more, never realized it had a bigger bore. Walt

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

TJFL
Contact Sal Scicala above. He'll take good care of you
Jim

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Confused / ignorant on the ignition system - figured vacuum is vacuum. Do remember in the 60's of Ford using a dual vacuum chambered distributor. Haven't given up on the tea pot yet. Looks like Sal has a good track record and may lead me down the right path. Thanks, Tom

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Look up "Load-a-Matic" distributor. This distributor's advance works off of a ported venturi vacuum on the carburetors that were specifically designed to pair-up with. If you connect it to manifold vacuum, it works backwards.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Mike, Did some research... No centrifical advance. Has 2 springs that are preset from the factory. Two vacuum sources - 1 in venturi 2nd half way up the base. Thanks...

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Load-a-matic is no joy in the stock application starting to swap around carbs or cams will start an avalange.
The merc carb aint bad just different and then everybody runs and hide...
Rebuild what you have and it will work good :)

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Also, on my Teapots, I use 5 lbs fuel pressure, not 2-2 1/2.
Sal will know best for your model, I'm sure

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

No. it has the same throttle bore size as an American one. If you read my post again, you will see I "bored it out" to the same size as the 2GC. I used something called a "Roto-Broach" I got from an outfit called "Drills and Cutters". It was expensive ($135), but it worked extremely well. So well, as a matter of fact, I'll bet it would work on an iron manifold.

BTW, if you are tired of having that manifold "hanging in my shop", I'll glady take it off your hands. On the other hand, if you want to run it, I'll let you use my "Roto-Broach" to bore it out. It will work with a regular drill press (I used a scrap 2GC base bolted to the manifold as a guide).

Also, I have a friend who just got a '53 Mercury. He was having similar problems and got a kit from Daytona Parts. Put it in and problem solved.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Oh, and you can also swap in a Holley 885 from the earlier Mercury-- and keep the load-a-matic distributor.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Have 2 tea pot's and gave the numbers to Sal. Both are 52 Merc with one being auto the other manual. He's willing to help me out. He also said the fuel pressure can be boosted and recommended checking the vac advance which checked out good. I still don't understand the principle of using manifold and ported vac on the dist and if that's the case why you can't "T" into both ports to supply the dist?
I haven't touched a flat head since the 60's. What a wealth of knowledge on this site!!! Young kids don't know what they've missed and are missing!!!

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Manifold (below the throttle plates) vacuum drops when the throttle is opened. Venturi (above the throttle plates) vacuum increases with engine RPMS. They are kind-of opposite but not exactly.

A "normal" or "typical" vacuum advance distributor increases timing advance when the vacuum signal drops.
A load-a-matic advance increases advance when the vacuum signal increases.

So, no, you can't T them together and expect good results.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Also you have to understand that the loadamatic does not use a combination of manifold vacuum and ported vacuum.
It uses ported vacuum (slightly above the throttle plates) and venturi vacuum (at the venturi of the carb (the narrowest point) only loadamatic carbs have the venturi junction for vacuum. The vacuum ports are connected inside the carb. Manifold vacuum would peg the timing at full advance at idle, not good.
When all working and correct, it's a good system, that works fairly well. Problem is most are a bit stiff on the advance plate, been fiddled with on the spring tension and plain wore out. Because of this they ain't given a fair chance. Folk are to quick to heave them out and plop something else in there, oftentimes an aftermarket ignition (Mallory) that has a sbc ignition curve in it !! In this case, with a stock engine, a loadamatic in good condition would be a whole lot better than that bloody red cap of disappointment.
Martin.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Mike,
A "normal" vacuum advance does increase timing with increased vacuum. When the vacuum drops, it decreases timing advance.
The big difference is that the loadamatic gets its engine speed input via the venturi vacuum signal, and balances this with ported vacuum for load input. Normal stuff engine speed via the advance weights, balanced with ported or manifold vacuum for load input.
Forgot to say before, a good loadamatic gives good mpg to boot, in good fetal.
Martin.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

The later Merc 885 carbs starting in mid 1950 have a small nylon ball valve in the tube connecting the two venturi vacuum sources together. This ball check stops the flow of the throttle plate port when near full throttle in order to get max vacuum advance. At somewhere less than full throttle, the ball falls back down onto the little pedestal rod that is attached to the ball valve chamber access screw. The pedestal rod keeps the ball from sticking down at the bottom of the chamber at normal throttle opening settings and allows pressure to flow at idle. If the ball gets lost during a rebuild or gets sticky from crud while in service then the timing suffers near wide open settings.

I'm not sure if the later open top carbs have this feature or not but I would figure that they do.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Chopper bloke,
I like the principal behind that little ball, it does seem to make sence, a clever idea.
It apparently worked good. If you've read about the mechanics illustrated Ford (MI FORD) the 885 was used on an 8BA engine fitted with Granatelli heads (8.5:1 if I recall) dual exhaust with glass packs and a stock loadamatic ignition bar a Mallory coil and condenser, which was fitted to eliminate a miss in the ignition above 100mph. Performance was good, don't recall the numbers, and I'm away from my stuff. It was an otherwise stock 50 or 51 Ford if I recall.
Same heads, carb, ignition, exhausts them went on a 0.040 over 8BA with porting and polishing and a mild cam. Got 158 hp!
The only spec he gives for the cam is the fact you can idle along below 10mph in high with no jumping or bucking, and that low speed power wasn't apparently effected. Shows a pic of him spuddleing along window open with dog walking alongside on a leash.
Sorry for calling him him, can't remember his name or the date of the magazine.
Seems to me, that loadamatic works pretty damn nice on this car.
The article is worth a dig out for a read, it gives the mpg, mph, hp and acceleration improvements.
I'm sure it didn't have headers fitted. Even before the jump to the new engine, the Ford was faster top speed and acceleration of the fastest new US manufacturer cars, the new caddy and the olds rocket 88!
Martin.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

[QUOTE=scooder;1116682]Chopper bloke,
I like the principal behind that little ball, it does seem to make sence, a clever idea.
It apparently worked good. If you've read about the mechanics illustrated Ford (MI FORD) the 885 was used on an 8BA engine fitted with Granatelli heads (8.5:1 if I recall) dual exhaust with glass packs and a stock loadamatic ignition bar a Mallory coil and condenser, which was fitted to eliminate a miss in the ignition above 100mph. Performance was good, don't recall the numbers, and I'm away from my stuff. It was an otherwise stock 50 or 51 Ford if I recall.

Shows a pic of him spuddleing along window open with dog walking alongside on a leash.
Sorry for calling him him, can't remember his name or the date of the magazine.
QUOTE]

You wouldn't be referring to Tom Mccahill and his black lab Joe, would you? DD

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Double D,
That's the very man and his dog.
I do like his written word, good wordsmith.
Thanks for the reminder.
Martin.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

When I was a kid, I compared the performance of my hand me down 51 Merc to other cars of the 50s & early 60s and the old car would run pretty good by comparison. It was impressive how such a heavy car with only a 255 flathead would run in stock configuration. It would keep up with most larger V8s of the period. Big blocks would thump it but not too many stock small blocks or 6-bangers would walk away from it. The overdrive helped but the motor had the torque to keep up for sure. By the early 70s I was already having problems finding parts for it. Now days you can get about anything but back then just getting a carb kit for that 885 was a long affair with phone calls & snail mail through Hemmings. I kept the car and eventually my Pop gave me the title to it. I'm sure glad for the internet and all the shipping companies we have now. Getting parts in south western Kansas was near impossible back in that time frame and my uncle ran the local parts store too.
Observations from Kerby

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Operating principle makes perfect sense... I'm sticking with the loadamatic.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Scooder and rotorwrench, it's nice to hear people that understand how the Loadomatic system works.

Going back to the nylon ball in the vertical channel between the ported vacuum hole and the venturi vacuum hole, speaking for Teapot carbs only, that ball was eliminated in about mid-year of production in 1955. Still had the same ported hole and venturi hole, so not sure if they changed distributor springs when they eliminated the ball. They also had at least two different color balls. Not sure if it was a weight difference or diameter difference. This is all based on the parts lists and pictures from my Holley manual.

Sal

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Sal,
Thanks for the nylon ball info in the teapot.
I'd think if there are different colour balls there is a difference, like the different colour speedometer gears in the post 49 stuff.
Martin.

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

I still have a lot to learn about the Holley "teapot" on my 52 Merc so this discussion has been interesting. I find there is a very good 40 page online manual describing the operation of the carburetor here. http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/m...901195215.html

Re: Tea pot carb help
 

Thanks Ralph. Gotta love the Old Car Manual Project.

Sal