Paint warning!
 

Without getting into the pros and cons of what paint cost, etc, Let me pass along a warning about paints. To begin with, I painted my fenders with TSC "Magic" paint and I used their primer with it. I was told to put "Bedliner" on the undersides of the fenders to protect the fenders from small stones and other stuff that might be thrown up against it. I was applying the bedliner to it. I thought the paint was well mixed up, not really! When first I put it on it was almost clear and I was able to dig a lot of pigment out of the can. So I mixed it again and it was much better and I proceeded to work my way across the fender until I was done. Then I looked to where I started and there was a small (2 sq. inches) area where the paint had crazed and was lifting off the primer. I concluded that in it's poorly mixed state, it would dissolve the TSC paint. I'm thankful it was in a hidden area and not visible. But My advice to anyone trying this to make absolutely sure that there paints are well mixed. BTW, I was using Rustoleum bedliner and it must contain some fairly strong solvent.
Terry

Re: Paint warning!
 

Go to body shop (reputable) and see how much TSC "magic" a n d rustoleum paint they have around. TSC products have their place...They were intended to slop some color on a dirty old tractor in a dirty barn with $20 paint gun.

I cringe when I read about model A guys even considering TSC OR rustoleum for that matter. Too much work to use shit paint.

Re: Paint warning!
 

I totally agree with Curt, Rustoleum really doesn't do the job. When I first starting on my model A restoration, I used Rustoleum primer and top coat, not the spray cans, but in quarts with a decent spray gun. BTW, I sandblasted and cleaned the metal before priming and painting, so the surface was good. I noticed the rustoleum would come off with very little rubbing or scraping and expose the primer. I ended up resandblasting the frame and other items I used Rustoleum on and painted them with a high quality paint - normally PPG auto paint products like DP90 and Concept. The PPG items are much more expensive, but like the old saying goes "you get what you pay for". I no longer use cheap paints like Rustoleum on my items to be painted. I am sure other people will swear that Rustoleum is great, but this is my experience with it.
Rusty Nelson

Re: Paint warning!
 

Hey Terry,
Sorry to hear of your paint woes !
Curious how you kept 'bedliner' from areas to be painted, like fender bead, etc ?

I've 'accumulated' a few small lumps/bumps on rear fenders from stones or whatever. So, I interested in whether that bedliner idea works out ? I've had several truck beds lined by various sprayed liner products , like Rhino, etc....and it is messy process, IMO.

Re: Paint warning!
 

I put brush-on bed liner from a can on the inside of my trunk. That stuff nearly knocked me out with the fumes. I bet it would ruin nearby paint pretty quickly.

Re: Paint warning!
 

It's like I always say, good paint is not that expensive. Especially when you compare the paint to the cost of the whole restoration. Good paint is worth the money, no matter which major brand of paint supplier you go with. All the major auto paint suppliers top shelf paint products will be about the same quality as the others. You're not gaining anything by saving a few bucks on paint material by choosing cheap paint. Cheap paint does exactly what it's intended to do. It'll looks decent enough to look like new paint, but it won't have near the lifetime or durability of quality materials.

Re: Paint warning!
 

Terry, I think you succumbed to a typical newbie situation in that you were likely overwhelmed with excitement & anxiety in this task which is a good reason why the paint did not get properly mixed ...thoroughly. Practice makes perfect. I'm sure the next time you do this, we can all be assured that the next batch of paint WILL be thoroughly mixed! ;)

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I purchased a paint shaker from HF and laged it to the concrete. I used it EVERY time I use the paint. Even if it's only been hours since I used it. Never a worry, and never any doubt about the paint being mixed.

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I thought I could get away with the TSC stuff on the fenders, maybe not! I just priced the paints for the body, PPG 1 gal of epoxy primer, 1 gal of lower body paint, 2 Qts of upper body paint + hardner and reducer $340. No TSC or Kirker for this! How does this sound?
I just painted the underside of the fender and stopped at the edge. That was the easy part. Some day, if I ever get this paint business out of the way and get this car back on the road again (and have enough money to buy gas) I will report on the efficacy of Rustoleum's Bedliner.
Yeah Brent, that was how it was except that yesterday was a very nice day here and I was rushing to get it done before I lost the light and warmth. The hurrier I go , the behinder I get! "Ya never have time to do it right the first time, but ya always find time to do it right the second time!"
Wish me luck!
Terry

Re: Paint warning!
 

I painted the frame of my jeep cj7 with TSP magic gloss black 2 years ago after first spraying the whole wire wheeled frame with phosphoric acid to convert the rust (iron oxide) to (iron phosphate) did three or 4 full wet sprays all over entire frame let dry fully its actually amazing to watch the rust convert. Sanding between coats except the last coat I then did magic TSC primer than the paint (2 full coats worth) bushed it on. It is an oil based enamel paint and drys to touch in 24 hours but takes well over a month to fully cure. It is hard as nails actually harder the stuff makes rocks look soft. My jeep is a work vehicle the back is converted to tool boxes and I'm out at job sites and on road daily I drive 55,000 miles a year and the old girl just passed 513,000 miles of hard use. so I have 110k ish miles on that frame paint job using tsc magic paint, mind you I live in New England were its battered by rocks and salt and I go 4 wheeling on the weekends and have not one spot of rust come through still looks like day I painted it. I was actually just T-boned in New orlens by an off duty cop in her cuzer while on a road trip last month crushed the side of my tub. Her crash bar hit my frame, frame crushed whole crash bar and front of cuzer but damned my frame paint is still in place just scuffed. It's wild stuff you just didn't Waite long enough before coating over it never really cured (curing and drying are two separate things) it and be dry not not cured I think it actually says on can after 24 hours or after being dry to touch Waite two weeks to top coat over. I have a full automotive paint shop in my mill and we do real paint jobs and that stuff holds up much much better to abuse than ppg 2 stage (at least on a frame).

Re: Paint warning!
 

Russ has the right idea. Buy a paint mixer and use it. The biggest money saver in my shop is my Devilblis (sp) paint mixer that i bought second hand for $75. With our automotive paint now costing from $150 to $500 a gallon, one has to make sure that the whole can is thoroughly mixed before using it, or else what ever is drawn out of the can will not be a color match to anything, and surely what is left in the can will not be a color match to anything else either. A good way to throw your hard earned money away is to not to completely mix your paint.

Re: Paint warning!
 

Where do you get off paying just $500 per gallon? I hear that a gallon of black, reducer and hardener will cost me a tad over $750 here in mid California.

Re: Paint warning!
 

$750 a gallon? I was only concerned with what was in the paint can of color. I wasn't counting the reducer, hardener or etc.. All the more reason to thoroughly mix your paint. :) Some of the just "colors" go well over $1,000 a gallon, but I doubt that very many of us would be using those exotic paints on our model A Fords.

Re: Paint warning!
 

Sounds about right 1 gt PPG DMC 921 - 1 gt of primer PPG DP 50LF - pint of catalyst and 8oz of hardner and gallon of reducer 1 year ago was $357.57 in Jackson ca . was unable to buy this type of paint in El Dorado County .

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12 years ago I painted my roadster pickup with whatever was PPG's fleet line of single stage urethane.As an off the shelf fleet color it was much cheaper.It was called 48 Ford commercial red.I don't have to satisfy a customer of stand behind it,so I went for it.Also,I've really only painted equipment for the last 30+years,and have first hand experience of how it holds up.It cost me $130.for what came to 6 quarts of sprayable material.4 years ago I built a little Dodge dump truck,and found the leftover paint from the A.I used it,it behaved,and looks good.The A in the picture is much darker than it really is,and the Dodge is really a little brighter in the picture than it really is.

Re: Paint warning!
 

I had a bad experience with TSC "Magic" paint also. I bought some Kubota orange to paint my tractor. Sprayed it over the original scuffed paint and automotive primer on the bare spots. The paint went on beautiful, but within 30 minutes of spraying their paint, it started to wrinkle and orange peel. I got everything sand blasted and started from bare metal. This time I used TSC "magic" primer also. The primer was so thick I had to use my rotary mixer in my drill to get it all mixed up. Even still, the final color wrinkled within minutes. I ended up blasting everything again and using Rust-o-leum tractor paint with no problems. I returned the TSC paint for a full refund.

Re: Paint warning!
 

@ Hardtimes,
It depends how the bedliner material is applied. If he rolled it on then a simple masking job is enough. If it is an industrial application like most pickup beds, the product dries in seconds. For that there is a very special masking tape that incorporates a piano wire on the edge to be pulled. That allows for a fine edge wherever you want it placed.

Or maybe I just didn't understand your question... ��

Re: Paint warning!
 

Maybe not as easy for undercarriage coatings; but because of high humidity mainly in Spring and Fall, with lots of condensation coupled with a non-air-conditioned garage, FWIW:

Quite a few years back,I prepared and coated the undersides of my Model A Town Sedan fenders and running boards, brake backing plates, brake drums, brake rods, axles, and "entire" under carriage with (2) coats of POR 15 & (2) coats of POR Chassis Black, after providing all metal preparation in strict accordance with POR instructions.

In my opinion, after testing and trying to wear out similar POR coated metal on different metal surfaces with an electrical powered steel wire wheel, this POR 15 coating process is tougher than any paint or coating I have ever experienced.

Always looks like I coated everything yesterday ..... should last quite a few generations.

My other coupe chassis and parts that I coated 20 years ago still look new.

Re: Paint warning!
 

H.L., A few years ago, I was pretty favorable to a company named "Magnet Paint" from Brooklyn , NY, Been around since 1916. They sell any quantity from one Gal cans to 55 gal drums. (Google Magnet Paints) They mostly sell to fleets and industrial uses. Anyway, they sell an item called "Chassis Saver"( $110 & gal a few years ago ) People who knew told me it was very similar to POR 15. BUT and I imagine this is the same with POR15, Once you open the can, you have to use it all because of it's affinity for oxygen. Does a great job, but I wasn't really ready to use it all and what was left in the can hardened up on me and therefore it was wasted. And when that stuff hardens, it gets hard. And you need to wear gloves, Any that gets on you skin has to wear off.
Terry

Re: Paint warning!
 

Hi Terry,

Because POR 15 is so moisture sensitive, with our almost constant high humidity, I only buy POR 15 in small six (6) pack cans ...... never quarts or gallons.

Next, in our area, usually only brush apply POR 15 coatings when "monitored" relative humidity is lower, i.e., after 10:00 a.m., and before 4:00 p.m.

Then, I always pour 1/2 of a small can or less, in a paper cup, re-seal can with Saran Wrap, brush apply coating, then re-open can for second half or so of brush applied coating.

I made a graphic chart indicating recommended POR 15 drying times with respect to their recommended outside ambient temperature and limited relative humidity to insure successful coatings and re-coatings. If relative humidity is higher than recommended for POR 15 applications, I always add about 5% - 10% POR 15 thinner for smooth brush coatings.

I only buy POR Chassis Black final coatings in spray cans & again follow instructions.

POR 15 manufacture'rs technicians and salespersons will tell anyone the biggest failures associated with POR 15 products always occurs with highly professional painters who never try to read "all" POR 15 product preparation instructions; never try to read "all" POR 15 application instructions; clean greasy metal with materials like gasoline, (in lieu of their recommended Marine Clean), which fills metal pores with thin grease; finally apply POR 15 as if it is paint; then complain when it fails.

Common old fart painter's comment: "I've been painting for (50) years, nobody can tell me how to apply paint." But this is not paint .... it is a special coating.

Preparation for coating any vintage under carriage usually takes up about 90% of one's time; several newly applied coatings only takes about 10% of ones time.

From actual experience, if a proven product is successfully used, it can be done once within several generations.

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I am by NO means a GENIUS painter, but have had a lot of experience, starting out painting John Deere & International Cotton Pickers, using QUALITY Synthetic Enamel with Lacquer Reducer. I've seen some WEIRD things!!!
1-Leo, an experienced painter, used a little Dish Soap in his sanding bucket, on a Mercury Bobcat. While doing the FINAL detailing, the paint BLEW off in SHEETS, shortly he had the WHOLE car STRIPPED!!
2-Ed had his '62 Mercury painted @ Earl Scheib, after 3 years in the SUN, it faded, he complained & they LAFFED.
3-One Guy mixed up Synthetic BLACK enamel, with a hardener, even after using his shaker, it had small soft lumps. WHIZZED it in an OLD Blender, let it sit overnight, to dissipate the BUBBLES & it worked well. After sitting in the SUN for 3 days, he color sanded & buffed it, BEAUTIFUL!!!
4-Has anyone used that "masking" spray in a rattle can? It goes on in a light BLUE, like the protective coating on WHITEWALLS. Washes off with PLAIN water!
Bill "Painter"

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I remember a guy in the early 1950's who used to have the shiniest car in our area ..... a Studebaker .... the first, later designed model that people used to say they never knew whether the driver was coming or going.

Anyway, he never drove far enough to an auto parts store, so he always waxed his car with locally obtained "KIWI" shoe polish from a grocery store.

Re: Paint warning!
 

"Originally Posted by daveymc29 View Post
Where do you get off paying just $500 per gallon? I hear that a gallon of black, reducer and hardener will cost me a tad over $750 here in mid California."


I have a question. I have had many cars painted but I know absolutely nothing about painting cars. That being said, this question may sound totally stupid and there may not even be an answer to it. But here goes:

Regarding this 750.00 gallon of black paint, reducer and hardener:
How much will this cover? In other words, will (could?) this gallon of paint cover the entire top side of a Model A body (body assembly, fenders, aprons, etc), or will this just paint one fender, or two fenders or two fenders and a hood, or ??

Or, to put it another way, how many gallons of this paint would you need to paint all of the sheet metal on an average Model A? For simplicity purposes, let's just assume the car is a 1930 coupe and the entire car will be painted black.

I am not looking to start painting my cars but just curious as to what you can get out of a 750.00 gallon of automotive paint. I understand there are probably dozens of variables. I always let the "pros" paint my cars and gladly pay their bills.

Thanks for taking the time to respond one way or the other!!!

__________________

Re: Paint warning!
 

What is your gun? The higher the quality of the gun with the adequate air flow will atomize the paint into finer molecules causing it to laydown better. Kinda like which will be smoother, a bathtub full of BBs, --or a tub full of golf balls. The smoother the surface, the less paint you will need, AND the less work involved in colorsanding to get it level. So again, what kind of gun, air hose connections, etc.??

Re: Paint warning!
 

Paint??

What is paint?
In my 72 years, I don't think I have ever heard of anything called paint except a horse.

Re: Paint warning!
 

Thanks for the reply, Terry.

Like I said, I asked this strictly for curiosity purposes.

Since the gun and equipment are important variables, let's assume that the paint is going through a sprayer and hose assembly similar to what you use in your shop. Also, let's assume the sheet metal is properly and professionally prepped. Or, how many gallons of black paint would you need to paint the subject 1930 all black coupe?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer this rather vague question!!!

Re: Paint warning!
 

A LOT of problems are caused when folks DON'T let primer & primer surfacer DRY/CURE long enough---DON'T GET IN SUCH A HURRY!!! And, follow the instructions!
Bill Slow

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i used tractor black on my chevy truck and it held up but faded after a few years. i use magic black and it faded within a year. i use acryllic enamel now 29.99 a quart at the local mix shop much better quality and still pretty affordable.

Re: Paint warning!
 

Amazon has a small POR 15 kit which I intend to use next week on brake backing plates and drum fronts. Here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J594B5C...eywords=por+15

Re: Paint warning!
 

I think you meant Brent Terry. I hesitate to answer as I don't feel comfortable giving much advice about a subject I know so little about. Anyone who would care to see my work, in my album "My A". This was with a Harbor Freight "Purple Gun", PPG Paint costing $354, 1 Gal Chicle Drab, 1/2 Gal Copra Drab , hardener and thinner. The fenders are TSC Black. The chassis is Magnet Paint , "Chassis Saver". Yes, it needs lots of color sanding. All in all, It's better than I expected. I painted two vehicles before in my life. A TR3 in 1965 and a 65 ford PU in 1974. Both were painted with DuPont "Centari" which is almost unavailable today ($15 @ QT). I always shied away from body work of all kinds, it was definitely out of my "Comfort zone". I have learned a little since then and now I don't fear it so much. If I continue with it, I may actually get good at it.
Terry