Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

hello someone know if it's possible to boring a AF 125ci block (european) to a 200ci A block without falling in water chamber.

Thanks

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Rowdy has one AF block that has the standard A bore so I would say yes. You will need an A head of course.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

.AF31FAB

Look at this post...I believe this could be your style block? BTW,..what is the
standard bore size for your engine?

............... England engine build numbers...................

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

If theAF block block has water jackets the same thickness as the A blocks,then I dont think it would be possible.It doesnt make sense to me that the OD of the A & AF cyls would be the same as that would make the AF water jackets very thick-But,I could be wrong.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

That is my thoughts also, but I have not worked with an AF motor.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

I wish I knew all of the history of that block so I could explain why it has a standard bore. At any rate it really needs to be be put in a RHD car. I have contemplated selling it, but since it has not gone to the machine shop for magnafluxing, so I am not sure what to ask.

I do not think most AF blocks can be bored to sdt. A bore size. I would imagine there is no cyl wall material out that far. I could be wrong on that. It would take some ultrasonic device of some sort to find out for sure. Rod

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

You really need to contact the Model A guys in England. Manchester & Dagenham Plants used both the small bore AF & standard size bore engines. You may be able to get a good full size block from there?
When new, the small bore engine actually cost more when fitted than the large engine. All AA trucks had the large engine.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Thank you all for your answers

the post 'england engine build numbers' show interresting pictures, the aAFand A block are not the same, so I think it's not possible to bore a AF block to a A block.
I will ask english men, maybe some are on FordBarn....

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

I have 1 of those AF and just measured with a caliper thru the water inlet and cylinder 2&3 there is not enough to bore to A engine spec

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Consensus around this English breakfast table is no it can't be done. 14.9 and 24hp blocks completely different. See gaps between cylinders in the castings as shown in the photos.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/...cpu/Blocks.jpg

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/...u/P1100571.jpg


Rod can you post pics of your AF block? Does it have those same gaps?

Cheers

Juggs

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Not meaning to skew the conversation, but why did Europe use smaller blocks / bore size? Was this all European countries or a select few? Was it because of a perceived safety issue, governments wanting to legislate or tax based on emission or fuel mileage, etc.? :confused: I saw the note about them in the recent restorer but it didn't seem to give a clear reason.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Great Britain offered the smaller bore size because of the road tax system in place there at the time. (though the 3285cc engine in cars was also available as an option). The smaller diameter bore brought the fiscal horsepower rating of the car in at 14.9hp, the larger diameter gave a fiscal hp rating of 24hp and attracted a higher annual tax paayment. This tax system was meant to favour the UK vehicle home manufacturing industry ( think small engined Austins and Morris). But in fact it shot the Uk industry in the foot as their cars became less and less suitable to export. The larger bore Model A engine was used on commercial vehicles in the UK which had different tax regime.
The smaller diameter bore engines of the Model A were GB specific though a few obviously made it across to europe and the empire countries.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

So the original AF stamped engine Rowdy states he has is most likely a commercial engine.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Weren't the 14.9 engines available from new in France and Japan? Presumably for similar road tax/hp tax (read protectionist) reasons?

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Ok, That makes sense. Thanks! Now I understand why we drew a line in the sand with taxes on stamped paper and tea...:D I kid... I kid...

Does anyone know how the engine weight was affected by the smaller displacement? Practically speaking how much of a performance detriment was this really in top speed and hill climbing ability?

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Mine came out of a Phaeton which was brought stateside from Australia. Vince's research turned up the fact it was part of a knockdown shipment and the car was likely assembled in South Africa. Rod

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Gosh how intriguing! presumably the engine went to South Africa from England and the rest from Canada . What year would that be?

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Now I understand why we drew a line in the sand with taxes on stamped paper and tea... I kid... I kid...
IS THAT TEA BREWED YET?
Don't know the weight difference- I would guess not much.
Cruising speed is not much different, it's really on the hills that the cubes tell. Many over here have now been swapped for the 3.3 engine

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Didn't know that. The knowledge you amass from this website is amazing.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

AF as used in UK was used only to designate small bore engine. If Rowdy has a UK 3.3 with AF stamped on it it has indeed been bored out ( see original question) or it's incorrectly numbered!!!

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

I can not post a link of the previous discussion of my block at this time due to the factI have not mastered cut and paste from my I-phone. Do an advanced search and likely you will easily find it minus Vince's comments. Yes there is a pic of the number stamp pad. If I remember my camera today I will get more pic's. I have no real explaination of why it is std bore, just know where I bought it and its history stateside. Rod

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Was the c.i.d. of the AF really 125? What was its BHP? How high, compared to the 200.5, would it rev? Was it also de-stroked? What did the Limeys do to hop it up? What were its performance specs when hopped up? Did it use standard 1.5" valves? Were the ports the same (about 1 3/8") ?

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Doing a quick calculation with a "stock" stroke the bore is right at 3.060".

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

According to one of "our" manuals : bore 3.0552 ,capacity 2043cc=124.6ci. stroke same at 4.25". ring gaps corresponding slightly tighter. Other differences with the 2043cc engine were in the smaller jets and venturi size, and a slightly smaller bore of inlet manifold. As far as I know there were no changes to valvesor cam shaft. To compensate for the lack of grunt the back axle was 4.55:1 . Also the cylinder head was different to give a smaller volume. Have no performance specs, but when in convoy the 2043cc cars keep up OK until it comes to hills . Limeys rarely souped them up at that time; they has Austin 7s to play with. All this research has got me scabbling through old books - Rowdy- I'm wondering if the authorities I've beeen consulting are wrong and that some 3.3 litre engines destined for RHD vehicles were in fact designated AF after all!!

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

I have two B small bore engines here in NZ , Although big end journal the same as big bore the rods are narrower at piston end, Head studs & valves are in a differant location along with the spark plugs, ONLY the crank is the same as big bore , Probally as much power as an austin 7 ???

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

It never was in England as has been discussed before. Please take the time to read ALL of which Vince's research has revealed and not assume all AF engines were made in England.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

The Model A ''small bores'' were specific to countries that had horse power taxes on private vehicles. This was mainly Britain, France & some other European countries.
Australia , New Zealand & Sth Africa had no added tax on engine size, so no small bores. But, from 1932 Ford UK started to sell vehicles here as they were lobbying for preferential market access in British Dominions ; the small bore B4 became available in small numbers.
Little known was that Ford Canada offered the small bore option & they were sold in Singapore in the Model A era which may have had HP tax. It is likely they used the English produced engine as there was a production connection between Ford Canada & Ford Britain.

AF stamped blocks are not small bore specific. These are known on some Model A sold in Sth America which are US produced RHD cars with the standard size engine.
AF can be any part of a Model A vehicle sold outside the US.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Here's inside a BF for reference - you can see the small bores.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...l/board/BF.jpg

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Here are the pic's. Rod

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

That's not a small bore AF casting that's for sure.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

I think that engine block [ Rowdys photos] is from a Sth American car.
Canada did not use those letters, so not from DownUnder.

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

As I said before it was likely made in South Africa. At some point it made its way to Australia, then to the US. The car was restored by a local guy and the engine was replaced with one that did not need a full rebuild. The person that restored it moved to Iowa sometime in the late 80's and passed away in the mid 90's. The cars current whereabouts are unknown from there. Rod

Re: Boring a 125ci AF motor to a 200ci A motor
 

Agree with you absolutely Hotrodfil..That's not a small bore AF casting that's for sure. ..(#29).. now look at the Juggler's excellent photo (#10) for a small bore engine casting and note the land between 1 and 2, and 3 and 4. and compare it it a std bore casting which only has land between 2 and 3. Check out the number www.fordgarage.com and maybe consensus would agree it's a Rouge std bore for a RHD ( and thus likely export to a RHD country other than British Empire- one in South America perhaps?) PS did you have any RHD As in the home market USA? Sorted?