The Ford Barn - To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

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Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Henry (Post 704914)

1) Yes. All thermostats of whatever make restrict the flow of coolant through the engine more than no thermostats do. The neck on the head of my 59A is 1½ " I.D. = 40 mm. Even the Ford original stat only had an opening of 29 mm and that's the biggest opening of any stat that will fit in that neck or hose. That 29 mm opening only passes half the flow that the neck will pass. So, why use a stat if every one is going to restrict the flow even when fully open? That brings us to

2) Why use stats at all? Here are all of the reasons that I know and have read:

a. It warms up the oil quicker to thin it out so it flows better in the pressure system and splashes better up under the pistons.

b. It boils off the moisture in the crankcase that will otherwise contaminate the oil and do other damage.

c. To get heat sooner in the heater in the winter.

d. It prevents the rapid expansion and contraction of the engine block and all engine parts caused by rapid fluctuation in engine temperature and the consequential damage caused by such rapid expansion and contraction.

e. And . . . the Number One reason to use thermostats: Because Mr. Ford said so (and every engine manufacturer since).

So, understanding all of the reasons to use thermostats why would anyone go without? Only two answers I can think of:

a. Their cooling system is so sick that the mere addition of the restriction of even the best of thermostats causes it to overheat. So, instead of diagnosing and solving the problem with something else in the cooling system they do the easiest thing - remove the thermostats.

b. Because they've bought a water pump from a manufacturer that tells them not to use a thermostat with it. Why would a water pump manufacturer say not to use a thermostat? Because the manufacturer promotes his pump as higher volume than other pumps but knows that such is only the case if the restriction of the thermostat is removed because his impeller was designed to move more water only when there is no restriction such as a thermostat whereas all other pumps are designed to move more water through the thermostat. Why would anyone buy such a pump? Because they don't know or don't believe these facts because someone is repeatedly promoting the pumps without disclosing these facts. :(

Nuff said.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

Hello Everyone,

I have no horse in this race, I've never met Mr. Shewman, Mr. Haney, G.M., or Prof. Henry. G.M. and Prof. Henry I know from their postings here. I have had outstanding customer support from Mr. Haney on a coil issue that he made right when it was very likely not any of his fault, for this I give him huge props.

Our car cools well, has never spit a drop of fluid (knock wood), and goes over mountains like the Larry Baily tour in Georgia's 2012 Eastern Meet, and can run down I-95 for over an hour at 65mph on a hot summer day, as it did at the end of the FordBarn Maine Tour last summer.

One point to add about the high flow pumps. (Full disclosure, I have a set waiting to go on the car.) They seem to be recommended (and work 'best' with) with the 4lb pressure relief valve. [EDIT: I see the pressure valve is 3lb, not 4 as I previously stated.]

-VT/JeffH

Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeryTangled (Post 705218)

Hello Everyone,

I have no horse in this race. Our car cools well, has never spit a drop of fluid (knock wood), and goes over mountains like the Larry Baily tour in Georgia's 2012 Eastern Meet.

One thing to add about the high flow pumps. (Full disclosure, I have a set waiting to go on the car.) They seem to be recommended (and work 'best' with) with the 4lb pressure relief valve.

-VT/JeffH

Are the "high flow" pumps you're about to put in the ones that come with instructions not to use with thermostats in the summer? If so, are you going to run stats or not?

Just curious.

Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

OK friends, heres where I'm at. I drained down the system last evening and it was raining hard today so it was a good chance to take a look at what I percieved as "over heating". I pulled the left hose and there are no thermostats as someone already mentioned. I put back straight water and let the little girl idle for quite some time, took off the pressure cap and stuck a meat thermometer in the flow for a while and it never went higher than 182 degrees. the outside temp was around 65 or so. Maybe I am just an old worry wart ? I pulled the sending unit and cleaned it well and put a new tip on the wire. The dash gauge is up and down like a prostitutes underware, whats up with that ??

Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

Every problem I ever thought was the gauge always turned out to be a bad sending unit - usually the new repros. Got an NOS, put it in, and it's worked great ever since.

Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

Hi Prof. Henry, The high-flow pumps are of that variety, but I wrote that they are waiting to go on the car. I quickly looked at the directions a few minutes ago and they give a recommendation for the Shewman stats, and say something like 'no stats are better than ones that restrict flow,' but that is consistent with what is known about Mr. Haney's pumps, and many of the available stats as you have detailed and I have learned. G.M. has written that he worked on both products, I think, and he has been quite free with the information that supports his theories on cooling which he's developed through testing.

I am not anxious to change what I'm running now because I don't have any issues at all, as I wrote earlier, I've never seen the car spit a drop on the ground and the fluid quantity doesn't change very much. I'm also conflicted about which way to go re: stats. It is my belief that our car doesn't have them installed right now. I just went and squeezed the hoses and can't figure where they would be, they don't seem to be in the upper hoses (our car is a '36, the engine has a tag on the bell housing that says 'Authorized Ford Reconditioner,' a stamped number, and Code 15, and I've never tracked it down as to the year of the block, but the pumps are in the heads).

Another small complication is that I'm not actually sure what kind of temps our car runs at because the temp gauge doesn't have numbers on it and I haven't made it a priority to use the laser temperature reading gizmo regularly. Even in long downhill situations our gauge doesn't change more than about 1/4 inch or so, whatever that means temp wise. The hottest I've seen it, idling in a parking lot at the end of 65mph interstate run in the summer, and I could still see some air above the red liquid on the gauge.

I am convinced that your test showed, on the downhill portion, that having the stats in your car absolutely kept the temps more in the desired operating range.

We've been through almost every mechanical system on our car in the last four years, but we've stayed away from messing with the engine simply because it works so well. (Rebuilt or refurbished: generator, carb, dizzy, coil, plug wires, starter, steering box and horn rod, tranny, rear, springs, shocks, fuel tank, brakes and cross-shaft, muffler, and a new top, but that's not mechanical, just what I can think of right now.) I have a spare 21-stud that I just ran on a test-stand in June, and just can't convince myself that it would be better than what we're running now. So, status quo for me for the near future.

-VT/JeffH

Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeryTangled (Post 706326)

Hi Prof. Henry,
I am not anxious to change what I'm running now because I don't have any issues at all, . . .
. . . in long downhill situations our gauge doesn't change more than about 1/4 inch or so, whatever that means temp wise.
So, status quo for me for the near future.
-VT/JeffH

You saw the difference between stats and no stats on my long downhill. Since yours doesn't really drop that low it seems as though you may well have thermostats.

But, I'm with you. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I would never have given a thought about nor any effort whatsoever to thermostats if I hadn't had the overheating problem going over Rocky Mountain National Park last fall. Now, after all of my efforts, I'm convinced that my overheating problem was because one of my brass stats was only opening half way. I would probably have been fine even with those if they'd worked right. They had been fine for two years before that including to the top of Pike's Peak. We lives and we learns.

Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

As some of you know Im having problems with my radiator, and after finding a radiator guy on the other end of Australia who is very knowledgable with early Fords [he has a number of them that are real gems] the question was posed about thermostats... Guess what, he doesn't run them. After questioning him further about it, seems our flatheads are not that critical with or with out. He said" If you have them in and its working well , Leave them in, if you have them out and working ok leave them out" Simple, Also any other "modern" car must run them, his words. SO there you go everyones right! For me I'll put them back in, thats just me..

Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

Hello Everyone, I've commented many times about amazing the things I learn about these old cars. Also reading can be dangerous. :p

Here's something that might add to the knowledge:

-VT/JeffH

Re: To Stat or Not To Stat? That is the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talkwrench (Post 706590)

Also seems everyone has a different temperature that they believe is normal or more efficient. This stat post has had me keeping a better eye on my engine temperature.I have not run thermostats in my 59AB with Skips pumps and normally only driving in the summer,last Sunday my gauge stays about 180 degrees. Too cool for effieciency? Now this is with a 37 thermometer gauge on drivers side head. Hot enough that you can't touch the radiator long. Somebody wanted this stat post gone which still amazes me.