The Ford Barn - Reports on Burtz new engines

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The Ford Barn (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/index.php)

- Model A (1928-31) (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)

- - Reports on Burtz new engines (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326095)

nkaminar

05-25-2023 06:30 AM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

JayJay,

Weber is a good option but buy some larger jets, mains and idle. The jets are easy to change. With the Weber on the Burtz block you can spin up past 3,000 rpm. I don't know how much rpm is possible. I have arbitrarily set my redline at 3,000 but do most of my cruising at 2,000.

I tried the tube header and straight (open) exhaust but the stock exhaust manifold and Ares performance muffler is just as good and not nearly as noisy.

Dave in MN

06-02-2023 12:51 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

I have a Serr Miller head on mine and 18,500 miles of trouble free service. Great engine!

Raaf	06-02-2023 01:50 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

@Dave in MN - what carb setup are you using?

Thanks!

Raaf

JayJay

06-04-2023 05:05 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJay (Post 2228045)

I'm building up a Burtz engine with his cam, flywheel, and high compression head. I'll likely use a Leonard Nettles oil pump, but plan the rest of the internals to be pretty much stock. I will initially use the standard manifolds and Zenith carb, but am seriously considering upgrading to a Weber and possibly a header down thee road after I get it running satisfactorily.

Is it worth going the extra to an Aries "high performance" muffler over the stock? If any of you fine folks have the Aries "high performance" muffler, how much louder over stock is it?

Any recommendations for timing gear, since that seems to be a weak point that would logically be even more vulnerable with the increased hp?

JayJay

So today I spoke with Jim? Joe? Davis, who is Aries Mufflers, he had a seller booth at the Auburn (CA) Swap Meet (down from Oregon). I presented him with the scenarios above and asked his advice on whether a "high performance" muffler was indicated. He said no, the HP muffler is for engines 85 hp and above, and was aimed at the folks who did overhead valve conversions. He didn't think that the modest upgrades I planned in my Burtz would get there, and he advised against the HP muffler. Good enough for me.

BTW, he had one of his polished stainless mufflers on display. Boy is it gorgeous!

Thanks all who responded.

JayJay

Chris Haynes

06-04-2023 07:33 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

I put the Aries High Performance muffler on my mostly stock A. I did have the cast iron header and the downdraft Holley/Webber carburetor. I noticed a loss of power. Hopefully it will do better on my RiLEY head engine.

Y-Blockhead

06-04-2023 07:53 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJay (Post 2230986)

BTW, he had one of his polished stainless mufflers on display. Boy is it gorgeous!

They may start out "gorgeous, but they certainly don't stay that way. MO, you're better off with the painted one (plus dollars ahead). Anything gets on it stains. So not so stainless...

Not to mention they could have put that ugly ass weld toward the middle of the car so you couldn't see it.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...8&d=1685926334

JayJay

06-04-2023 09:44 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead (Post 2231025)

Yeah, stainless gets that way when it gets hot. I had polished stainless headers on my last BMW motorcycle (the boxer engine, so the headers stuck out the front of the heads, curled around and went aft to the 'silencer'). They started out nice and shiny, but soon turned that brown that your muffler did. I figured the best way to find out what would restore the shine would be to ask at a Harley Davidson dealer (Harleys are all about bling, right?). They sold me a container of "Blue-Job" ("Removes the exhaust pipe blues, gold and yellow discoloration, rust, and fingerprints"). Didn't work worth a darn.

And you're right, that's certainly not the most attractive weld I've ever seen.

JayJay

Chris Haynes

06-05-2023 10:09 AM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

The idea behind stainless isn't for looks. It is so they won't rust out.

JayJay

06-05-2023 10:40 AM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes (Post 2231133)

The idea behind stainless isn't for looks. It is so they won't rust out.

Agreed. However, the display I saw sure looked to me like it had been polished after assembly (the tops of the welds were polished), and that doesn't contribute much to rust resistance.

JayJay

rotorwrench

06-05-2023 10:52 AM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Aircraft have been using CRES type tubing since the WWII era. It turns brown over a fairly short period of time. It's certainly too much work to keep polished. The systems also need very good support due to the weight. They erode more than corrode but tend to crack when they get thin.

Model A cars already had issues with the exhaust manifold tending to slump down on the heavy end and a lot of that is due to the weight and arm of the exhaust pipe and muffler. Ford should have supported the pipe in front of the muffler as well as behind but they never considered it and issue. They likely didn't figure that so many of these cars would survive as long as they have,

alexiskai

06-05-2023 12:44 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

I've seen it recommended to use the aftermarket sleeve that mates the tailpipe and the manifold, because supposedly it ensures that the tailpipe is oriented correctly and puts less stress on the joint.

ModelA29

06-05-2023 01:45 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench (Post 2231147)

Model A cars already had issues with the exhaust manifold tending to slump down on the heavy end and a lot of that is due to the weight and arm of the exhaust pipe and muffler. Ford should have supported the pipe in front of the muffler as well as behind but they never considered it and issue. They likely didn't figure that so many of these cars would survive as long as they have,

Henry did think about it. They added the gland rings to keep the manifold located. I think early cars used one in every hole later ones are just in the end holes of the exhaust manifolds. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...1312&cat=41892

Y-Blockhead

06-05-2023 03:44 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes (Post 2231133)

The idea behind stainless isn't for looks. It is so they won't rust out.

Then why do they bother to polish it??

Actually, I bought the stainless muffler because I didn't want it to rust out. I didn't like the polished look so it "buffed" it with a scotch-brite. But I didn't expect it to stain. now it looks terrible.

Y-Blockhead

06-05-2023 04:02 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench (Post 2231147)

What they really should have done is installed another stud on both ends of the manifold instead of relying on the two center studs to support it.

Hmmm, wonder if I can get a Y-Block manifold to fit...

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...3&d=1685998884

Dave in MN

06-05-2023 09:11 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raaf (Post 2230536)

@Dave in MN - what carb setup are you using?

Thanks!

Raaf

I am currently running one Stromberg 97. (Okay power)
I have also tried two Stromberg 81's (Very good power and throttle response...poor fuel economy, there is one throttle position where I cannot tune out a lean condition.)
I have tried a Holley Sniper TBI Electronic fuel injection (Pretty good power and throttle response and great fuel efficiency) (SEE PHOTOS BELOW)

I am planning a road trip to Alaska this summer and I will be using the Holley Sniper but carrying the single 97 as a backup. The manifold adapter directly below the Holley EFI is removed to install the single Stromberg 97.
Good Day!

Dave in MN

06-05-2023 09:25 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Sorry - repeat of previous post

ModelA29

06-06-2023 12:22 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead (Post 2231228)

Hmmm, wonder if I can get a Y-Block manifold to fit...

If you had a Dodge block you could stick a Y head on it.

Raaf	06-06-2023 02:47 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave in MN (Post 2231286)

Dave - thank you for this info! I am considering a single 97 for mine.

Do you mind also telling me which manifold you are using for the single? ...and did you have to modify it to get it to fit since the plates where the bolts go are typically cut in half? (Yours appear to be modified in some way to account for this)

I have an unbuilt Burtz and Serr head waiting for me to get my butt into gear but still sorting out some of the final details too.

Thank you!

Raaf

Y-Blockhead

06-06-2023 03:59 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Quote:

Originally Posted by modela29 (Post 2231411)

if you had a dodge block you could stick a y head on it.

Awesome...

Dave in MN

06-06-2023 09:00 PM

Re: Reports on Burtz new engines

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raaf (Post 2231439)

I made four aluminum spacers that mimic the flange end on the manifold. They act as spacers to support the concave manifold washers. The manifold studs that hold the intake on need to be longer due to the extra manifold thickness. The intake manifold is from Snyders PN: A-9425-SGL This manifold has larger diameter runners than most manifolds so it matches up to the larger Burtz intake ports nicely.

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