Re: Wheel Washers
 

Doesn't the taper of the lug nut going into the wheel hold the wheel from moving on the studs...I'm sure it does. Putting washers on the stud seems to me to be extremely dangerous...like putting lug nuts on in reverse...the taper is there for a real important reason...

Re: Wheel Washers
 

If the washers are the ones supplied by the parts vendors, the washers are tapered, too, so they fit the lug nuts and wheels securely.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...p;d=1631054704

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...p;d=1631206726
Wheel Stud Washers on Model A Ford Wheel.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Keith, below are pictures of my left side. Are the studs swedged on it?

Mercman, thank you for the nice picture enlargements, do you see something else I might be missing?

It is obvious that the right side with the incorrect studs needs to go. What would be the best thing to do? Replace the studs with the correct ones? Buy a new drum and hub with the studs already installed? Look for something on the used market? I also noticed that the two rear drums are somewhat different. Should that create a problem?

Sorry for rambling on. I also need to decide if I should shim the axles, or just add another washer to make the split pin line up properly with the axle nut.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Tom L.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

well stated

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Tom -

You might get lucky and find a good steel drum to replace the one that I agree "has to go", but it is doubtful. Most used drums would be too thin to turn. Turning steel drums is tough, and you would be lucky to find a shop with the proper mandrel to do it.

The vendors sell cast iron replacements. I previously suggested Randy Gross as a source. I would not replace just one drum in cast iron with the other in steel.

In my previous post, I mentioned that if the drums were running loose, that the axle tapers, keyways etc could be messed up. I think that's what you are seeing. I think that with some blue dye and patience, you could clean up the axle taper to get a good fit on the hub.

As the axle taper is reworked, you may find that the drum now hits the backing plate. That's the only reason I would ever use axle shims - it will move the hub back away from the backing plate.

The threads on the end of the axle also look stripped. If you don't have good nut engagement on the axle threads, you will never be able to torque the axle nuts properly. Be certain to use new HARDENED axle nuts. If necessary, the axle threads can be repaired by essentially replacing the original 5/8-16 nuts with 9/16-16 (and a slight reduction of torque with the new nuts) after filing down the original threads. There is a very good youtube video showing this being done on the car, and I've done it on my own vehicle. Its a safe fix that should last until a rear-end rebuild is needed.

I'm sure you will also want to look at the condition of the service brakes, rollers, tracks, and emergency brake while you have it all apart.

GRutter

Re: Wheel Washers
 

I just caught something you wrote earlier.You said one side had the axle washer on the outside of the hub instead of the recess.
Well,it is supposed to press on the outside.If it fits down in the recess it will be pushing on the fiber washer,and that will never stay tight.Fiber washer sits down in the recess,and the hardened steel washer stays up on the outside.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Buy two rear drums with studs installed and turned . A wheel coming off while driving is a danger and costly.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

I agree. Also, make sure the washers are hardened ones. I bought "hardened" washers from one of the reputable vendors and they were soft, and deformed when tightening the axle nut. I ended up going to the local, friendly "Cat" dealer to get proper hardened washers.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Thanks everyone for your input and guidance.

My plan of attack:
1. Attempt to clean up what I have and see if I can maintain the proper torque on the axle nuts. The DPO evidently only finger tightened them after replacing the brakes.
2. If the hubs won't hold to the taper, I will try a shim. If the nut is the problem, I will try the removal of the axle threads and go to the next thread down.
3. If either one of the above works out, I will be looking to replace both rear drums and hubs with cast iron drums.
4. If none of the above comes about, I will take the axles and carrier out from the left side of the car and replace both axles, drums and hubs.

I have four questions. Are the new axles that the vendors sell any good? Should I look for used axles? Randy Gross for new cast iron drums and new hubs, or can I find anything on the used market?

Thanks again,

Tom L.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Dirttrack 49, I am jumping ahead a bit here but when you come to reassemble the hub onto the axle, make sure both the axle and inside of the hub are spotlessly clean of any trace of oil or grease. I use either brake cleaner or wax and grease remover (the same stuff used before painting) till I get no trace on a clean rag. I don't even touch the surfaces again.
This is hardly ever mentioned, even in manuals but it is vital if you want the hub to stay put..

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Synchro909, Thanks for the heads up. And all of your input over the past few years.

Now I am thinking I better go back and take another look at my 26 Touring. Had the rears off not long ago checking out the parking brake lining.

Love the avatar. I have a Bull Terrier that looks very similar. Exception being, he prefers rabbits, gophers and squirrels. :)

Tom L.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

As Keith says……
Then the only option is to cut lug nuts off from wheel-side… quite a chore.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

This is a follow up as to what I have found and repaired so far.

Luckily, the bashed up axle ends with questionable threads, after cleaning them up, were able to take the 90 ft. lbs. when tightening the axle nuts.

I added two axle shims to each axle. Probably could have gotten by with one on both.

Since I only had the screwed up right side drum, I put it back on until I can find another. Most likely, I will just buy some new cast iron drums for both sides from Randy Gross.

Will put some miles on it and see if everything stays put.

As always, thanks for everyone's input and suggestions.

Tom L.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Be sure and check the axle nut torque after the first few miles and then again and again, to ensure that it stays tight.
I hope you made sure the axle, the shims, and the hub (where the axle fits) were absolutely oil/grease free.
FWIW, 1 thick shim would be better that 2 thin ones.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Thanks katy,

Yes, cleaned everything up before assembly.

Will be checking the torque value often.

Probably could have gone with only one shim per side. May end up doing that anyway as we see how things go.

Wondering how one can tell if they have a steel versus cast iron drum? I have two different looking drums on the rear. Are both of them steel? The one on the picture to the left is different than all the others in appearance.

Tom L.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

First picture, definitely steel drum. Second I suspect is steel also. Need to see more of drum.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Cast iron drum is a lot thicker than a steel one.

Re: Wheel Washers
 

Thanks Ruth and katy.
Below is a picture of the inside if that can help identify.
The one that is swedged is the first one in the picture above. The second one has welded studs. If there both steel, I will need to replace them all. Fronts also look like steel.