302 help...

[1stGrumpy]

Here's my delema... My '57 Ranchero came with a 302 out of a '78 F150, the front of the motor was apart down to the timing gear cover. The timing cover had been replaced with a RTCF-302A cover and supposedly the timing chain had been replaced. I installed a new waterpump ('69 Mustang), fuel pump, belts, hoses, yadda, yadda, yadda! I got it to fire up and it ran pretty good (no smoke or expensive noises) but it overheated (as in boiling over) very quickly. I suspected that the timing was off due to the vacuum advance (points distributor) being up against the top radiator hose. I found that there wasn't a timing pointer on the cover and the one off the old cover (2 O'Clock position) wouldn't fit. In a box of extra parts I found a pointer that mounts on the PS of the engine but I couldn't get it in place due to the waterpumps lower outlet. After taking everything back off, including the waterpump, I installed the pointer. Now the problem is that you won't be able to see it because it sits behind the waterpump. I pulled all the spark plugs and since they were out, I decided to do a compression test. Yes, I realize that one has nothing to do with the other, just another point of reference. The readings were...
#1 170 #2 160 #3 155 #4 170 #5 170 #6 170 #7 170 #8 160
I put the hose from the compression tester back in #1 hole and the other end in a can of motor oil and rotated the engine until I could see air bubbles in the oil, at the point the bubbles stopped ( this should be tdc) I checked the rotor and it was about 90 degrees off from #1 on cap. I checked the degree marking s on the dampner and the zero (tdc) mark was at 11 O'clock. I pulled the distributor and re-installed it with the rotor pointing at #1. After re-assembling everthing, I attempted to start the engine and it won't start, it backfires through the carb. Soooo... what am I missing? I'm at a loss! Anybody got any thoughts?

[scicala]

What happened, is I think you were on the exhaust stroke when you saw the air bubbles in the oil. Since the camshaft (that drives the distributor) spins at half the speed of the crankshaft, that explains why the rotor of the dist was 90 degrees off. Your distributor was installed correctly before you removed it. The backfiring thru the carb and not running confirms that. Put it back where it was and mark TDC on a make shift pointer, then set the ign. timing.
As far as the water pump/overheating problem, the one you installed may have been for an engine that used opposite rotation. Not sure on that though, because I'm not sure what year they started using reverse rotation with serpentine drive on trucks.
Sal Cicala.

[Ole Don]

To find TDC, remove the right rocker cover and the spark plugs. Turn the motor with a socket and flex handle untill both number one valves are closed, then with a wire in the plug hole, turn slowly untill it is at TDC.

[IndyFordy]

If the prior recommendations don't solve the problem. You may want to make sure you got the correct water pump. The pumps made for serpentine belt motors run backwards. You never know what got put in your part box, or old car.

Good Luck!

[1stGrumpy]

Thanks guy's. scicala, I think that you're correct. I should have rotated another 180 after the bubbles stopped. Worst part of it is, I knew better! Getting old ain't worth a shit!!
It is the proper waterpump for that cover, regular rotation pumps have rounded ports and the reverse pumps have a square and slightly larger port. Cover RTCF-302A is for the regular rotation pump.
Thanks again...

[paul2748]

Check your thermostat - just because it's new doesn't mean it's working properly.

[1stGrumpy]

Originally Posted by paul2748

Check your thermostat - just because it's new doesn't mean it's working properly.

It was one of the first things that I did. Thanks...

[JohnSunliner]

If none of these suggestions work, check to make sure they lined up the timing gears properly.

[JeffB2]

This comes up every so often with the 289-302's and it can be caused from the head gaskets being installed wrong which blocks off the water passage and that causes the overheating,also the 221-289's use an intake gasket that has a smaller water passage than the later 302.Here is an example: see posts #3 & #4 http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...g-coolant.html

[JeffB2]

Originally Posted by IndyFordy

If the prior recommendations don't solve the problem. You may want to make sure you got the correct water pump. The pumps made for serpentine belt motors run backwards. You never know what got put in your part box, or old car.

Good Luck!

His '69 water pump is a "short" pump with the passenger side lower hose,the "long" pumps were 1970 and later drivers side lower hose and reverse flows were late 1984 and later.

[scicala]

Thanks for the good and useful info JeffB2.

[1stGrumpy]

I rechecked the timing this morning and as suspected, it was 180 degrees off. I retimed it and, now, it purrs like a kitten! However, it's still getting hot very quickly and pushing the water out of the radiator. I'am going to check coolant flow, per JeffB2's link, and then if it checks out ok the next step will be pulling the heads. I am not getting a water/oil mix anywhere and it's not smoking but something is causing it to push out the water!

[1stGrumpy]

Well, I put a hose on the heater hose bib on the waterpump and tried running it again, very little water came out of the hose. Although the engine ran hot (195 at highest point) it wasn't any where near as hot as before! This is really getting confusing... any ideas?

[28RPU]

Don't forget to check your radiator. When its warm, feel the radiator to see if there is a cold area on it. If so, then that area is stopped up.

[Ford blue blood]

You're new "rebuilt" water pump bad? The impeller turning free on the shaft is not unheard of.

[JeffB2]

This little gadget may help isolate the source:http://www.harborfreight.com/infrare...ter-93984.html but if you are having low flow off that heater hose I would suspect check the passenger side head first.

[tdlmomowers]

Definetly sounds like someone put the head gaskets on wrong, on both sides and closed off the water jackets. I did this myself many years ago, but just on the left side. The car wouldn't get hot all of a sudden, but it got too hot after a short while. It's very easy to do, if you get in a hurry.

[George/Maine]

I bought a new timing cover from speedway and used a 72 water pump.
I remember they give you a couple of gaskets for different water pumps
You may have wrong gastket.

[1stGrumpy]

Well, here's the latest update. I pulled the front of the engine back apart, again, and checked everything out, again. Correct waterpump and gaskets for the timing cover and the thermostat is working properly. Has to be blockage in the motor, I blew compressed air into the thermostat housing and it pushed water out the waterpump ports... I guess the heads need to come off so that I can inspect the headgaskets and then go from there...

[38Conv]

LIKE THEY SAID IN ABOVE POST--- HEAD GASKET ON WRONG--- that is your problem---good luck