Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Late V8 (1954+)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-02-2012, 06:19 PM   #1
Buford
Senior Member
 
Buford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: La Luz, NM. 88337
Posts: 881
Default Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Hello everyone...I need help with my '51 Fordomatic trans...it slips in low and reverse with the rear band (new band)adjusted to specs, I can tighten it a little more than is recommended and it seems to grab the drum when I shift it manually into low or reverse...when I drive it with the shifter in Dr. it starts in second like it should but when the trans shifts auotmatically into high it drags and I am sure it is because the rear band is too tight. I have inspected the rear servo and tested it with air pressure and it seems to apply with great force...any Fordomatic guys out there with some input? With the rear band adjusted properly it still slips in low and reverse but the trans works fine in second and high with nice firm, smooth shifts. I took the trans out because it was leaking and it shuddered in reverse...put a complete kit in it with lots of new bushings, clutches, one band and new seals. I have a book and have cleaned all the valves and everything looks correct (have had it apart twice) Could a bad, or weak front pump cause this problem? I don't have the pressure gauges that it shows in the repair manual.
Thanks for reading this, I sure would like to know what is causing my problem...Buford.
Buford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 12:10 AM   #2
all american boy
Senior Member
 
all american boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 342
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

mr buford

i think you might as well get the pressure gauges.

as an added bonus you can be the new

Ford Barn Fordomatic expert.

i've read a few forums guys getting

way into rebuilding Fordomatics but

not here that i recall.

'51?. that's a Fordomatic in front of a Flathead!

THAT'S an early Fordomatic!

Have A Nice Day!
__________________
Ford 292
Cruis-O-Matic 3 Speed FX
Out Of '64 F100
Going Into Drag T
all american boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-04-2012, 10:32 AM   #3
Buford
Senior Member
 
Buford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: La Luz, NM. 88337
Posts: 881
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by all american boy View Post
mr buford

i think you might as well get the pressure gauges.

as an added bonus you can be the new

Ford Barn Fordomatic expert.

i've read a few forums guys getting

way into rebuilding Fordomatics but

not here that i recall.

'51?. that's a Fordomatic in front of a Flathead!

THAT'S an early Fordomatic!

Have A Nice Day!

Thanks for your input All American Boy, I know my car is an early V8 and the first year of the Fordomatic trans, I thought I might get more feedback from the late Ford guys since there are many more automatic transmission cars on this site.

I am getting the gauges today and will report my findings here unless I am banned from talking about my early Fordomatic trans on the later Ford site.
Have a nice day! Buford.
Buford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 11:31 AM   #4
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 926
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Since low and reverse have the rear band in common, sound like you are on the right path at looking a the rear band adjustment.

You don't mention if you have checked or readjusted the kick down linkage. If out of adjustment it can cause band or clutch slippage (or harsh shifting)

And, No you won't be banned.

Last edited by Y-Blockhead; 04-04-2012 at 06:37 PM.
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 12:12 PM   #5
all american boy
Senior Member
 
all american boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 342
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

mr buford

good man!

there's something about disk's with

the Fordomatic.

they look ok but they have to

have the right 'dish' to them.

that's about all i know about

insides of a Fordomatic.

Have A Nice Day!
__________________
Ford 292
Cruis-O-Matic 3 Speed FX
Out Of '64 F100
Going Into Drag T
all american boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 04:47 PM   #6
54mainlinetim
Member
 
54mainlinetim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 49
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead View Post
Since low and reverse have the rear band in common, sound like you are on the right path at looking a the read band adjustment.

You don't mention if you have checked or readjusted the kick down linkage. If out of adjustment it can cause band or clutch slippage (or harsh shifting)

And, No you won't be banned.

like y-block head said sounds like your on the right track, but might also check adjustment on the rod!

I dont know how diffrrent the flathead linkage is then the y-block or if it has the same type of linkage at all since yours is older trans but on a y-block ford-o-matic, even if the trans is adjusted correctly it might not shift properly due to the rod adjusments ,on a ford-o-matic its actually called a "throttle pressure/control rod" and if its not hooked up right it wont shift right,the throttle pressure rod works different then a kickdown,,, from what i have read the throttle pressure rod works as your stepping on the gas pedal at a certain point the pressure tells the trans to shift up to the next gear (hence the name pressure throttle rod)....a kickdown is when you are driving and need to pass or speed up quickly and you quickly step on the gas pedal and the kickdown tells the trans to kickdown into lower gear (hence the name kickdown) without the throttle pressure rod hooked up the trans wont shift up into the next gear properly at the right time or at all...make sure all the springs to the linkage is hooked up and not wore out because the spring tensions also effect how the throttle rod works...

in the last picture i posted of the manual under the transmission section , youll see it tells you how to set the linkage with your "rpms" in the NEUTRAL and DRIVE and adjusting the dash pot on the carb and the rod...and the last part in the paragraph talks about band slippage and turning the clevis so many turns...

HOPE THIS HELPS
heres a few pictures of the rod setup on a y-block:




Last edited by 54mainlinetim; 04-04-2012 at 05:37 PM.
54mainlinetim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 06:15 PM   #7
Buford
Senior Member
 
Buford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: La Luz, NM. 88337
Posts: 881
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Thanks for all the input, I think I have found the trouble. I called Gene at Flatomatic trans in Oregon...He is an old hand with these Ford transmissions. He said it was a common problem on the small case Fordomatic to slip in reverse and low after the trans case got cracked for any number of reasons. I did the oil pressure tests and it is all normal. Gene indicated that the trans was dumping fluid in the rear servo supply down stream of the test port and there isn't any other test ports to isolate the problems. He said there is most likely a crack in the center support. Now I will need to find a small case air cooled Transmission case to put all my new guts in.
Can't beat older guys when it comes to practical knowledge!

Any of you good Ford guys have transmission case for me?

Again, thanks for all the help on this site...
Buford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 07:36 PM   #8
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 926
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead View Post
Since low and reverse have the rear band in common, sound like you are on the right path at looking a the read band adjustment. (oops meant to say rear).

You don't mention if you have checked or readjusted the kick down linkage. If out of adjustment it can cause band or clutch slippage (or harsh shifting)

And, No you won't be banned.
Gene didn't try to talk you into a C-4 conversion?? I do have a FOA sitting on my garage floor that came out of my '55. I sold the bell, air cooled converter and flex plate.

Not sure which case it is because it has cooling lines and a vauum modulator, suspect it is a FMX, starts out in low, shifts 2 more times.

As you know they are heavy, best to find one close to you. Shipping would kill you.

Last edited by Y-Blockhead; 04-04-2012 at 07:42 PM.
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 08:39 PM   #9
Gerry
Senior Member
 
Gerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lake Forest, Southern California.
Posts: 148
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

WOW that would be interesting a FOM/FMX hybrid on a flathead plenty strong and takes off in first. Interesting thought...
Gerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 09:28 PM   #10
Daves55Sedan
Senior Member
 
Daves55Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Granite City, Illinois
Posts: 473
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

I have a small case cast iron Ford-O-Matc that came out of a '53 with a frozen 215 I-block six. Should be identical to what you have.
Daves55Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 10:00 PM   #11
Buford
Senior Member
 
Buford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: La Luz, NM. 88337
Posts: 881
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan View Post
I have a small case cast iron Ford-O-Matc that came out of a '53 with a frozen 215 I-block six. Should be identical to what you have.

Hi Dave, PM me with more info...I don't need the converter or the bell housing, just the transmission including the pan and fill tube/dipstick.

Or you may email at: dingmanjk@gmail.com

Thanks, Karl Dingman.
Buford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 03:37 AM   #12
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 534
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Could one of the servo supply tubes be cracked or deformed and leaking?
Now, I'm going from dim memory here, but it seems I remember that case cracking wasn't a problem until the CruiseOmatic came out, with the sprag or one-way clutch that enabled the trans to start out in first instead of 2nd (the rear band was not needed except in manual low). The stationary part of the sprag was anchored to the case with a special long servo mounting bolt in the center of the case and the extra strain of shifting into gear at high idle (or doing a 'neutral drop'!) is what broke these cases. Your trans doesn't have the sprag but could still be cracked, I guess. Just drop the pan, pull the front servo and look for a crack at the bolt hole. As I remember, this cracking affected 2nd gear as the front servo could now flex and move when the band was applied. A crack would not cause a pressure loss as there are no oil passages in the case; those tubes are what carry the pressure to the servos. Also, I remember something about an aluminum insert either in the back end of the input shaft or front end of the output shaft that carries oil somewhere. This insert can come loose and cause problems (it may only be on the Cruise-O-Matic; not sure). Old shop manuals have pictures on how to check.
It's been over 25 years since I've been into one of these trannies so I may be a little vague.
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 07:06 AM   #13
LOWRIDER
Senior Member
 
LOWRIDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kingman Az. 86409
Posts: 226
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

I think 40Deluxe has a good point there I would check out 1st. Going on my own dim memory (its been more than 25 yrs since I've been in one of those) I recall the sprag/low reverse clutch situation. When I first started messing with automatic transmissions I put the sprag in backwards on an FMX I was going thru (different animal but in the same ballpark). Took awhile to figure out what I did. My "teacher" teased me for years about that one.
LOWRIDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 05:08 PM   #14
Daves55Sedan
Senior Member
 
Daves55Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Granite City, Illinois
Posts: 473
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

[QUOTE=Buford;400634]Hi Dave, PM me with more info...I don't need the converter or the bell housing, just the transmission including the pan and fill tube/dipstick.

The older Fordomatics did not have a fillertube/dipstick. They have a filler-cap on the right side of the trans case near the rear. In order to fill the trans with fluid, it is necessary to pull-up the floor-covering and pop-out the big rubber plug in the floor hump to access the cap. If your trans has the fillertube/dipstick, I believe it is from a newer model
Daves55Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 07:37 PM   #15
Buford
Senior Member
 
Buford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: La Luz, NM. 88337
Posts: 881
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

[QUOTE=Daves55Sedan;401044]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buford View Post
Hi Dave, PM me with more info...I don't need the converter or the bell housing, just the transmission including the pan and fill tube/dipstick.

The older Fordomatics did not have a fillertube/dipstick. They have a filler-cap on the right side of the trans case near the rear. In order to fill the trans with fluid, it is necessary to pull-up the floor-covering and pop-out the big rubber plug in the floor hump to access the cap. If your trans has the fillertube/dipstick, I believe it is from a newer model

My transmission has the filler on the passenger side rear corner like you suggested...I was told that the '52 and up had a fill pipe with dipstick...please email me with all the particulars on the trans you have...thanks, Karl. dingmanjk@gmail.com
Buford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 07:44 PM   #16
Buford
Senior Member
 
Buford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: La Luz, NM. 88337
Posts: 881
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
Could one of the servo supply tubes be cracked or deformed and leaking?
Now, I'm going from dim memory here, but it seems I remember that case cracking wasn't a problem until the CruiseOmatic came out, with the sprag or one-way clutch that enabled the trans to start out in first instead of 2nd (the rear band was not needed except in manual low). The stationary part of the sprag was anchored to the case with a special long servo mounting bolt in the center of the case and the extra strain of shifting into gear at high idle (or doing a 'neutral drop'!) is what broke these cases. Your trans doesn't have the sprag but could still be cracked, I guess. Just drop the pan, pull the front servo and look for a crack at the bolt hole. As I remember, this cracking affected 2nd gear as the front servo could now flex and move when the band was applied. A crack would not cause a pressure loss as there are no oil passages in the case; those tubes are what carry the pressure to the servos. Also, I remember something about an aluminum insert either in the back end of the input shaft or front end of the output shaft that carries oil somewhere. This insert can come loose and cause problems (it may only be on the Cruise-O-Matic; not sure). Old shop manuals have pictures on how to check.
It's been over 25 years since I've been into one of these trannies so I may be a little vague.

Well my trans has a center support with the special bolt with a pointed tip to engage the center support. The oil passage to the rear servo is in the case and it works fine with air pressure applied to make the servo go. The only common thing with low and reverse is the rear band and that is where my problem is...I believe Gene at Flatomatic told me that broken cases were common on these old Fordomatics. After checking the oil pressures from the port in the front of the case the oil pressure in drive, low and reverse is normal. The leak is down stream and before the oil gets to the rear servo.
Got to keep going, I will find and repair the problem...thanks, Karl.
Buford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 09:16 AM   #17
Buford
Senior Member
 
Buford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: La Luz, NM. 88337
Posts: 881
Default Re: Help with a Fordomatic transmission

Well I found the problem and the reason this car was for sale to me...the rear servo piston was in backwards and would not allow enough travel for the rear band to grasp the rear drum tight enough when adjusted properly....thanks for all the input, my trans works great with the new kit installed...Buford.
Buford is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:48 PM.