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Old 12-20-2011, 07:12 AM   #1
31chevy
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Default 6 volt relays

Any one know where to purchase 6 volt relays ? Thank you in advance.
Gary.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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Any one know where to purchase 6 volt relays ? Thank you in advance.
Gary.
I was told NAPA has them but I had no luck or help in finding them. I found a good one on Ebay if you want a good old mechanical type relay made in the USA. Ebay item # 350247109257,this was actually one made for auto industry by RBM probably right here in my hometown in Ohio. I am using it to relay power to a four fuse panel for fuel pump switch,heater and turn signal switch and radio. If you search Ebay for 6 volt relay you get quite a few choices and a couple new ones I imagine solid state made in China ,Mexico Portugal etc. I was told a couple weeks ago on Fordbarn that Bosch makes a good one but never found a 6 volt one. Fordbarners are great help, Henry/Kokomo took the time to send me a diagram of where everything should go and how to hook up.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Depending on your needs, you might try NAPA. They may be able to get 6 volt, early '50s horn and/or headlight relays that look "period correct". For something smaller and less obtrusive, I'd check Radio Shack. Your degree of success may depend on the experience of the people who wait on you in the stores. Maybe an on-line search? FWIW
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

You could use a ford 1939 to 1948 horn relay it is 6 volts. And keeps your car all Ford. For example, Mac's auto has them for $12.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:43 AM   #5
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Here's a 12 volt one that you could run down to Radio Shack and pick up for under $5.00. It would probably work with 6 volt since it doesn't take much juice to activate the electromagnet for a relay. The secondary (switched) side of the relay doesn't care about voltage since it's just a switch. If it doesn't work, just take it back. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3020762

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Old 12-20-2011, 08:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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You could use a ford 1939 to 1948 horn relay it is 6 volts.
A horn relay wouldn't work because the primary circuit is energized by grounding only. It can't be powered by an independent power source as relays typically are. It shares it's power source with the secondary circuit.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:50 AM   #7
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Volkswagon used 6 volt until the early 60's. You may be able to get a Bosdch one for a volkswagon. Marv
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

What is the relay for? Besides just voltage, there are different kinds of relays. Some are triggered by ground, some are for momentary contact, some for continous duty.

A headlight relay, a horn relay, and an overdrive relay are three completely different animals.
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:40 AM   #9
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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A horn relay wouldn't work because the primary circuit is energized by grounding only. It can't be powered by an independent power source as relays typically are. It shares it's power source with the secondary circuit.

I am interested in your statement. With a positive ground horn relay you ground the circuit and the relay closes , the power comes directly from the negative power source to what ever. So what if it shares the negative. If the relay operates a horn why would not operate something else. Not arguing, trying to learn.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

I'm learning, too. I have "heard" that a horn relay isn't designed for continuous duty and maybe not adequate for load that would need to be energized for extended periods. I don't know how valid that is, but a horn is usually operated only intermittently.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

i installed a 6 volt electric fan on my av8 and mounted a model a cut out relay that was on the generator to my firewall.one wire to the fan and the other to the ignition switch. works fine. i have one on ebay right now, that has the ford script on it . my car mine trying to keep old school, and that is old school JAN. i also used a inline fuse from fan to relay.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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I'm learning, too. I have "heard" that a horn relay isn't designed for continuous duty and maybe not adequate for load that would need to be energized for extended periods. I don't know how valid that is, but a horn is usually operated only intermittently.
Bench test a horn relay for continuous use and you'll find it gets too hot to touch within a minute.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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I am interested in your statement. With a positive ground horn relay you ground the circuit and the relay closes , the power comes directly from the negative power source to what ever. So what if it shares the negative. If the relay operates a horn why would not operate something else. Not arguing, trying to learn.
Thanks for your question.

When I first saw the inquiry about a 6 volt relay I had the same thought, "Why not a horn relay?" and was about to post such until I thought about it further.

In the picture and diagram below you'll note that the horn relay has just three connections. One (marked B for battery) is to apply current to the relay which is attached to both the primary and secondary circuits inside. A second contact (marked S for switch) attaches to the wire that goes through the horn button to ground. The third connection (marked H for horn) goes to the horn. When the primary circuit is grounded it completes the circuit that energize the electromagnet and closes the secondary circuit which then powers the horn. That's fine if that's all you want to do - close a switch to a larger load by closing a switch to ground. That's exactly the same as the starter solenoid. But, you can't switch on a load through that kind of relay by turning on the ignition switch. That is because such function requires two seperate isolated circuits through the relay as illustrated and explained below.





The usual use for a relay is to use a low current such as from the ignition switch to close the relay and power a higher current need such as a fuel pump, heater fan, stereo, etc. As you can see in the pictures and schematic below, for it to work like that you need 4 connections. One (85) that takes low current from the primary source such as the ignition switch, a second one (86) to ground for that primary circuit, a third (30) that takes the higher current from the battery, and the fourth (87) that sends the higher current to its higher need.






The only way a horn relay could be made to work like that would be by hooking it up "backwards." You would use the primary connection that would normally come from the battery as a ground. Then run your primary source from the ignition switch to the ground connection on the relay (that would normally go to the horn button.) The accessory to be switched by the secondary circuit would have to have the current go directly to it first then through a ground wire to the horn connection of the relay so that when it was energized it would be grounded and work. It could work like that but you'd have to insulate the accessory from ground and complete the ground circuit through the relay.

Better to just get a standard 4 connection relay for switching high current with low current such as the one I posted in #5 also shown above with the same schematic on the side of that relay as is shown above or a headlight relay that works exactly as described above.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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Originally Posted by Old Henry View Post
Thanks for your question.

When I first saw the inquiry about a 6 volt relay I had the same thought, "Why not a horn relay?" and was about to post such until I thought about it further.

In the picture and diagram below you'll note that the horn relay has just three connections. One (marked B for battery) is to apply current to the relay which is attached to both the primary and secondary circuits inside. A second contact (marked S for switch) attaches to the wire that goes through the horn button to ground. The third connection (marked H for horn) goes to the horn. When the primary circuit is grounded it completes the circuit that energize the electromagnet and closes the secondary circuit which then powers the horn.





The usual use for a relay is to use a low current such as from the ignition switch to close the relay and power a higher current need such as a fuel pump, heater fan, stereo, etc. As you can see in the pictures and schematic below, for it to work like that you need 4 connections. One (85) that takes low current from the primary source such as the ignition switch, a second one (86) to ground for that primary circuit, a third (30) that takes the higher current from the battery, and the fourth (87) that sends the higher current to its higher need.






A horn relay could be made to work by hooking it up "backwards." You would use the primary connection that would normally come from the battery as a ground. Then run your primary source from the ignition switch to the ground connection on the relay (that would normally go to the horn button.) The accessory to be switched by the secondary circuit would have to have the current go directly to it first then through a ground wire to the horn connection of the relay so that when it was energized it would be grounded and work. It could work like that but you'd have to insulate the accessory from ground and complete the ground circuit through the relay.

Better to just get a standard 4 connection relay for switching high current with low current such as the one I posted in #5 also shown above with the same schematic on the side of that relay as is shown above.
What about the relay I mentioned in my first post. It is a headlamp relay with a 20 amp fuse and 4 terminals,battery,switch ,ground and power out? Old school Made in the USA.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Old Henry,

I understand how a relay works. My question is that with a + ground relay both the primary circuit and secondary circuit can be fed from the same source. Then when you ground the primary circuit with a + ground the switch closes and supplies the negative full power to the load. Meanwhile the full load would not flow thru the horn grounding wire, although still connected. I understand the relays get hot, that is because a lot of amps is flowing thru it. Not a sign of being able to last. Do you ever see how hot the ignition resistor gets and it is on all the time. My question would be what amp rating is given to horn relays.

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Old 12-20-2011, 10:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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What about the relay I mentioned in my first post. It is a headlamp relay with a 20 amp fuse and 4 terminals,battery,switch ,ground and power out? Old school Made in the USA.
That would work. That's the same relay I was describing. My "treatise" was mostly to explain the difference between that kind of relay and the horn relay and how they each function differently and do different things for different purposes.
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Old 12-20-2011, 10:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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Old Henry,

I understand how a relay works. My question is that with a + ground relay both the primary circuit and secondary circuit can be fed from the same source. Then when you ground the primary circuit with a + ground the switch closes and supplies the negative full power to the load. Meanwhile the full load would not flow thru the horn grounding wire, although still connected.
The horn relay works great for what it is designed for. It is exactly the same kind of relay as the starter solenoid - power coming into the relay from a constant source then switched to the load through the secondary internal switch by grounding the primary circuit. If that's what you want that works great. That is the very simplest of relays and is used for the horn and starter so that the huge load to the horn and starter doesn't all have to pass through the horn switch and starter switch. A single small wire can be run from the relay to a ground switch to activate the relay without doubling the wires to and from the switch. Such a simple relay might also be used for a fuel pump that is powered by the secondary circuit of such a relay with the ground wire of the primary going to a grounded toggle or intermittent normally open switch under the dash. But, power to the fuel pump could not be controled by the ignition switch with that kind of relay.

The kinds of relays most want in their cars is the one that is activated by turning on the ignition which then activates the relay to connect the constant source of power from the battery to the load without putting the full load through the ignition switch. To isolate the primary circuit from the secondary circuit in that way requires the 4 connections described.

BTW, the polarity of the current going through a relay doesn't make any difference how it works. Any current will magnetize the coil and close the secondary circuit regardless of which direction it's flowing through it. So, it doesn't matter whether it's positive ground or negative ground.
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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My question would be what amp rating is given to horn relays.
I found a rating for Model A horns as 4.5 amps and Model T horns as 5 amps. I haven't yet found the amperage for the newer 6 volt horns but I would speculate that it is about the same. That should give you some idea of how many amps at 6 volts the horn relays can carry. If I find out more I'll add it.
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Old 12-21-2011, 06:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

I did a google seach & found NOS Bosch 6v relays used on volkswagens when I needed some for my RHD 36 . I used them on the front turn signals using amber fog lights , I was sure the fog lights pulled too many amps to run thru flasher unit & turn signel switch. It works great !
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:40 AM   #20
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Here's another option: The Bosch relays were a little too pricey for me so a google search turned up these identical SPDT take-offs for ~$3.50 ea. They look and mount just like the Bosch units.

Tyco Electronics 0-1432873-1. They're 6v, 40 amp low resistance relays and you can get them here:

http://www.newark.com/jsp/displayPro...TECONNECTIVITY


I use two of them on the grey coupe... one for the electric fuel pump and one for a universal 6v wiper that I sometimes swap out for the vacuum unit on cross country trips (one advantage of not having a headliner installed)... Both are wired with switches off of the ignition circuit so everything shuts down with the key. I've been using them for almost three years now w/ no trouble.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

I wish to thank all of you for your input, especially Wltr Mitty I ordered 3 of them just now using the link you posted. By the way 6 volts will not pull in a 12 volt relay, I tried it today. Thanks again to all of you.
Gary.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:53 PM   #22
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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Here's a 12 volt one that you could run down to Radio Shack and pick up for under $5.00. It would probably work with 6 volt since it doesn't take much juice to activate the electromagnet for a relay. The secondary (switched) side of the relay doesn't care about voltage since it's just a switch. If it doesn't work, just take it back. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3020762
I just bought this 12 volt relay from Radio Shack and it works fine on 6 volts. Just thought someone might like to know.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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I just bought this 12 volt relay from Radio Shack and it works fine on 6 volts. Just thought someone might like to know.
More than likely, you got lucky and the likelyhood of continued, dependable operation would be suspect in my book. DD
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:53 PM   #24
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

http://www.newark.com/durakool/dg85b...whereElse_None

Got mine here ,about $4.00 apiece ,be sure and get the socket they plug into ,3.00',,I bought a few spares at this price and they are good quality relays
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:06 PM   #25
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Speedway Motors has them for fans and such for hot rods their 6 volt and good for 20/30 amps and their made by Bosch. They have a terminal for a normanly open circut and one or a normanly closed circut all on the same relay depending on how you hook it up they might work on horns too if they don't pull more than 30 amps The part number is 0332204001 bosch number and Speedway's number is 910-64104 it's for 6 volt systems not 12 volt.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:10 PM   #26
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I just bought this 12 volt relay from Radio Shack and it works fine on 6 volts. Just thought someone might like to know.
Low voltage will cause it to heat up and burn out sooner if it works at all
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Wltr_Mitty View Post
Here's another option: The Bosch relays were a little too pricey for me so a google search turned up these identical SPDT take-offs for ~$3.50 ea. They look and mount just like the Bosch units.

Tyco Electronics 0-1432873-1. They're 6v, 40 amp low resistance relays and you can get them here:

http://www.newark.com/jsp/displayPro...TECONNECTIVITY


I use two of them on the grey coupe... one for the electric fuel pump and one for a universal 6v wiper that I sometimes swap out for the vacuum unit on cross country trips (one advantage of not having a headliner installed)... Both are wired with switches off of the ignition circuit so everything shuts down with the key. I've been using them for almost three years now w/ no trouble.
good find (Y)
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Following Supereal's recommendation, I made a headlight relay from two 6v Echlin (NAPA) Solenoids, ST541 (one for high beam and one for low). It works great.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

I have relays on my headlights, Fifth Avenue Antique Auto Parts, $27.00 in 6 volt, $22.00 in 12 v. They can handle 30 amps OK. www.fifthaveinternetgarage.com
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

"I was told a couple weeks ago on Fordbarn that Bosch makes a good one but never found a 6 volt one."

Early 1950-60 VW uses them:
Bosch SPDT
6V 30 amp Relay
0332204001
Used as dimmer relay
In 1950 to 1966 VW
Also listed as:
Merced 0035340245
Porsche PCG61510100
John Deere AR91168
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:12 PM   #31
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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I just bought this 12 volt relay from Radio Shack and it works fine on 6 volts. Just thought someone might like to know.
May or may not work as the latching voltage is right around 6V. A similar 6V relay is:

Durakool DG85B-8011-96-1006-M1
TE Connectivity / Potter & Brumfield 1432873-1
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:14 PM   #32
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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Originally Posted by 4dFord/SC View Post
Following Supereal's recommendation, I made a headlight relay from two 6v Echlin (NAPA) Solenoids, ST541 (one for high beam and one for low). It works great.
That's the approach I like, except I use a continues duty relay.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:20 PM   #33
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

31chevy, Newark.com has 6 volt relays,I have use several of them on '40 fords for headlights and taillights. They are very good relays.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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That's the approach I like, except I use a continues duty relay.
I asked Supereal about using the ST541 as a continuous duty relay. Said he's used them for years with no problems.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:54 PM   #35
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I asked Supereal about using the ST541 as a continuous duty relay. Said he's used them for years with no problems.
Yep, told me the same thing as have several other people. I still prefer the continuous duty relays. However, you can most likely find the interment duty ones cheaper if cost is an issue.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:04 PM   #36
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Jerry
Wonder if this would work.
Bosch 0332204001 6 Volt relay
Pin 87A low beam N/C
Pin 87 High beam N/O
Pin 30 Headlight switch
Pin 85 Bat positive
Pin 86 Dimmer switch either side, other side open.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:03 PM   #37
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Two relays are normally used. You do need to watch the polarity on some of these relays because of an internal relay. An issue would be that the power is still coming through the headlight switch and the objective of using relays is to provide a direct path from the battery to the lights bypassing the normal car wiring. The power would be coming through pin 30 (30 is power in and 87/87a are power out). One of the pair 85 & 86 would need to complete a circuit to switch the power. This is normally a power (trigger) source and a ground. If the headlight switch was to be used as the trigger source it would have to be on 85 or 86 and the power on 30. Battery power on 85/86 and the dimmer switch on 85/86 would be providing power to both sides at the same time.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:44 PM   #38
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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Originally Posted by cmbrucew View Post
Jerry
Wonder if this would work.
Bosch 0332204001 6 Volt relay
Pin 87A low beam N/C
Pin 87 High beam N/O
Pin 30 Headlight switch
Pin 85 Bat positive
Pin 86 Dimmer switch either side, other side open.
Bruce
Just for the heck of it I looked at this. I would not even consider it, but physically think it could be done. (this has not been well thought out, so not really sure it would work without some additional effort).
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

"Battery power on 85/86 and the dimmer switch on 85/86 would be providing power to both sides at the same time."

Low beam circuit 87A is open when the dimmer switch is toggled to High completing the circuit 87
Bruce
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:15 PM   #40
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

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Originally Posted by cmbrucew View Post
"Battery power on 85/86 and the dimmer switch on 85/86 would be providing power to both sides at the same time."

Low beam circuit 87A is open when the dimmer switch is toggled to High completing the circuit 87
Bruce
Your statement is correct, but the dimmer switch would have to complete a circuit to ground to energize the coil. If I understand what your saying, with battery power on the other side of that pair, that is not how the relay works. 85-86 circuit is what energizes the coil. The coil basically turns a switch between 87 and 87a, de-energized it connects 30 to 87a, energized it connects 30 to 87. Putting battery power on say 85 would just connect it to battery power from the dimmer switch and nothing would happen. 85-86 has to be a trigger source to energize the coil.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:21 PM   #41
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Pin 85 is Bat Positive ground.
Bruce
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:35 PM   #42
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

OK, no reason to connect it to the battery, but it is a ground and would work, sorry about that. I was seeing battery and thinking battery - power!. There would be no reason to connect a relay up this way as it defeats the purpose of using a relay in the first place, but I think it would work. Your basically replacing the dimmer switch with the relay. I think what you are saying matches the notes I attached above.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:41 PM   #43
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Default Re: 6 volt relays

Thank you
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