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Old 06-13-2010, 12:03 PM   #1
Gary in Mozarks
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Default Replacing axle seals 39 ford

I pulled the hubs off both of the rear ends I have and found that both of them had grease and oil all over the drums etc. Looks like its a common problem.

Any special tricks to replacing the rear axle seals?

Anything else I should do while I am in there?

Whats the procedure for pulling the rear axles out?


Side note, My new economy hub puller lasted through 3 hubs .
It looks like I pretty much stripped out the threads on one side of the hub puller on a really tight hub. Anyone else had one fail? I will probably rethread it to 1/2x20
Gary
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Old 06-13-2010, 01:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Gary, some of these rear axle housings had a grease fitting just behind the backing plate flange. The idea was to grease the wheel bearing without pulling the brake drum off. Bad idea! That most of the time forced too much grease into the bearing and out into the drum. If your axles have those fittings, remove them and plug the holes(1/8 pipe). In order to replace the inner axle seals,the whole rear axle must be dismantled, the seals are inside the housing and require a special tool to replace, Macs Ford Parts has that tool. Some guys say that there is a seal that you can install without dismantling the rear end, I have never seen it nor have I used it, might be okay, I dont know for sure. Check the differential filler plug to make sure that the banjo housing does not have too much grease in it. If it is at the proper level, it is not likely that too much grease would be pulled up and out the axle into the drum, but yes, it can happen if those seal are worn out. Dismantling that whole rear axle is a big job, unless you have done it before, or unless you have a helper who has experienced it, try to avoid that job. I hope this info might help you! Tom
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Old 06-13-2010, 02:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

About the hub puller: I borrowed a friend's KRWilson REPLICA puller. What a nice tool! It's well worth the money if you don't have someone to borrow one from like I did. (Thanks again Bruce!)

PS: I figure that you probably want to keep the wide 5 wheels and drums, but if the drums are shot and you don't mind changing out the wheels, get the new made in USA drums that can be slid off the studs when you remove a wheel. It will make brake exams and maintenance a breeze without having to pull those hubs.
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Last edited by PeteVS; 06-13-2010 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Added PS
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:23 PM   #4
Richard (EV8G)
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom/SC View Post
Check the differential filler plug to make sure that the banjo housing does not have too much grease in it. If it is at the proper level, it is not likely that too much grease would be pulled up...
Tom: I am pretty sure you did not mean to say "grease" but "gear oil"???

BTW: I have seen and presently have the "quick-fix" seal, which fits into the hole in the axle housing that the axel exits. I also have (somewhere) the source that I obtained them from. I have found them in rear ends that we worked on, but do not know how well they work. I am sure they are better than nothing though...
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

I have found the Model A type hub "knocker" type nut a very good tool for pulling hubs. Just remove the original nut, screw the knocker nut on, jack up the far side and tap the nut with a 8lb sledge. Have not had a hub that would not come off yet and have not damaged any axles. Those nuts are available from most of the peddlers.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Richard,your are exactly right! It should read "gear oil"! Must be this 100 degree weather we are having here that affected my thinking!. It is always good to hear from you! Tom
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

The seals inside the axle half do NOT need a special tool to install. Get a flat washer with an outside diameter slightly smaller than the o/d of the seal, and weld it to a length of pipe about 1/2" in from one end. Hold the new seal on the tool with a dab of grease and bang it in. Make sure the lip of the seal faces back towards the banjo.
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:07 PM   #8
Gary in Mozarks
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassman/NZ View Post
The seals inside the axle half do NOT need a special tool to install. Get a flat washer with an outside diameter slightly smaller than the o/d of the seal, and weld it to a length of pipe about 1/2" in from one end. Hold the new seal on the tool with a dab of grease and bang it in. Make sure the lip of the seal faces back towards the banjo.
Thanks for the info, Sounds like it does take a special tool to install them but you made your own. I like that way of doing things. Thanks
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard (EV8G) View Post
I have seen and presently have the "quick-fix" seal, which fits into the hole in the axle housing that the axel exits. I also have (somewhere) the source that I obtained them from. I have found them in rear ends that we worked on, but do not know how well they work. I am sure they are better than nothing though...
Any idea of where to get these seals? or a part number?
Gary
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom/SC View Post
Gary, some of these rear axle housings had a grease fitting just behind the backing plate flange. em and plug the holes(1/8 pipe). In order to replace the inner axle seals,the whole rear axle must be dismantled, the seals are inside the housing and require a special tool to replace, Macs Ford Parts has that tool. Some guys say that there is a seal that you can install without dismantling the rear end, I have never seen it nor have I used it, might be okay, I dont know for sure. Dismantling that whole rear axle is a big job, unless you have done it before, or unless you have a helper who has experienced it, try to avoid that job. I hope this info might help you! Tom
Tom Thanks for the info, My hubs don't have the grease fitting. It looks to me like rear end dope all over everything so I am guessing the seals are bad. Im going to have to do something about the seals before I put new brakes on it, and if that involves dismantling the rear end, thats what I will do. I need to located an exploded diagram of the rear end.
Thanks again
Gary in Mozarks
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:29 PM   #11
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimTN View Post
I have found the Model A type hub "knocker" type nut a very good tool for pulling hubs. Just remove the original nut, screw the knocker nut on, jack up the far side and tap the nut with a 8lb sledge. Have not had a hub that would not come off yet and have not damaged any axles. Those nuts are available from most of the peddlers.
that sounds like a bad idea, just think about what your doing. i would spend $150 for the winfield puller then all the money and time to rebuild my rear end. why do you think Henry put that grove in the rear hub, for the puller
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:52 PM   #12
Richard (EV8G)
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Any idea of where to get these seals? or a part number?
Gary

I am sure I have an original box with the brand/part number. I might also have the info on the guy I got them from... have to look. If you do not hear from me on this, send me a message. This week is going to be exceptionally
chaotic due to the LARS... R.
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:58 PM   #13
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Assuming 1940 rear ends/axles are the same as 39, I had identical problem? At first I thought I was leaking brake fluid but it was one of the axle seals. I was hating the thought of pulling the axles until I spoke to a 40 expert who said he had a few after market slip on seals that do a good job of sealing the rear end w/o 'major surgery'. This was a very common problem showing up in the 50's already. We are talking about a aftermarket seal that is no longer available as far as I know. Mr friend gave me two and I subsequently located some at an old Ford parts store. Go ahead and email if you like as I might be able to help you. No leak in two years.
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Old 06-16-2010, 07:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in Mozarks View Post
Any idea of where to get these seals? or a part number?
Gary
I found the box; No. F-7 Tru-Torque, rear wheel inner retainers for Ford 1938 thru 1948 and Lincoln and Mercury. "When wheels are off, just slip over axle shaft (flange out) and press into axle housing race, finger tight." Note: I think they meant to say "drums" rather
than wheels...

Mfgd. By Otto-Items, Inc, 4390 Olive St. St. Louis 8, MO. "Patent applied for"...

I bought these from someone in Northern California, need to look for
the invoice and will post that as well. I just found the info:

Don's Antique Auto Parts, 37317 Niles Blvd, Fremont CA 94536 510-792-4390

"Evidently" there is something magic about 1938 and later? Do not
understand why they would not work on 32-37's or even Model A's?
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Last edited by Richard (EV8G); 06-16-2010 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Additional Info Added
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:41 PM   #15
Gary in Mozarks
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard (EV8G) View Post
I found the box; No. F-7 Tru-Torque, rear wheel inner retainers for Ford 1938 thru 1948 and Lincoln and Mercury. "When wheels are off, just slip over axle shaft (flange out) and press into axle housing race, finger tight." Note: I think they meant to say "drums" rather
than wheels...

Mfgd. By Otto-Items, Inc, 4390 Olive St. St. Louis 8, MO. "Patent applied for"...

I bought these from someone in Northern California, need to look for
the invoice and will post that as well. I just found the info:

Don's Antique Auto Parts, 37317 Niles Blvd, Fremont CA 94536 510-792-4390

"Evidently" there is something magic about 1938 and later? Do not
understand why they would not work on 32-37's or even Model A's?

For those of you interested in these seals, I called Don's Antique auto parts today and talked to Don. He said he had pleanty on hand and sold me a pair for 32.00 dollars. Thank you Richard.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

The National seal number is 6510... And it's way obsolete! I checked years ago... They look like they would work as a permanent fix... Karl

Last edited by Karl Wolf; 02-21-2012 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:26 AM   #17
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

I replaced FRONT 1940 Ford axle hub seals yesterday. Maybe this will help. No special tools needed. Just patience. The new seal I installed is numbered LYO 37002. It came with the MT Products Lincoln Brake Kit. The old seal is CR-15707-USA made by Chicago Rawhide. I don't know if they are still available.
Step 1. Apply a light dab of oil all around the perimeter of the seal.
Step 2. Place drum/hub upside down on a hard surface that won't "give". I used garage floor.
Step 3. Hold seal in place and while keeping it level gently
tap" seal on the top of its perimeter to get it used to fitting. It took me about 10 tries to get it level. Do not bang on it if it goes in crooked. Instead, pull it out and up with your fingers and keep trying. It will eventually take a "level set" in the opening. You must have patience and develop a light but firm "taping" with your hammer.
Step 4. Once it's "set level" in the opening place a stiff piece of metal across the seal and gently tap it all the way in until seal is even with the hub. Hope the photos help. I "staged" them after the seal was in place, but I think you can get the idea.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:31 AM   #18
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Can someone tell me the best way to remove the old seals from rear Lincoln drums (after removing C clip?) There has to be some trick to it that I am missing. Thanks
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:49 AM   #19
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in Mozarks View Post
For those of you interested in these seals, I called Don's Antique auto parts today and talked to Don. He said he had pleanty on hand and sold me a pair for 32.00 dollars. Thank you Richard.
WOW!!!! This bit of info made my many visits to the Ford Barn worth while...
In years gone bye, I have used the National external seal, between the drum and axle housing many times to correct a failed inner axle seal on the early Ford rear ends. This was a common fix in the '50/60's. My '36 currently has the National external seals which I installed in about 1965.. I can a test to the fact that the external seal do work, especially on the Columbia side..
I have mentioned the external seals many times in the course of postings to the Barn and Early Ford V8 Forum's... No one every took my comments seriously.. Most people felt that the rear end had to be disassembled in order to do a proper repair...
I will be calling Don's Antique Auto Parts tomorrow to get a set for my Ford, I am getting ready to do a brake job on the rear axle..
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Replacing axle seals 39 ford

46 Chief, The Lincoln drums rear seal is the same as the Ford. I use a rod and go in from the outside and tap the bearing to drive out the seal.
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