how to keep fenders form re-cracking on a 36 pickup

[lonewolf]

Hello I'm trying to make 1 good set of rear fenders out of 2 sets. And I've noticed that almost every used fender I see is cracked in the same spot. Was wondering if anyone has found a good fix to make sure they don't re crack? Thanks in advance

[flatheadfan]

lonewolf-

What we use to do in days past was to take an old mechanical brake rod and bend it to conform to the fender and then weld/braze the rod on the inside edge. But, given the rarity of good mechanical brake rods today that probably wouldn't be a good approach! However, I think you get the idea.

Tom

[Karl Wescott]

Replace junk steel fender with a fiberglass one.

LOL

Just kidding.

Karl

[Scott H]

Don't go off-roading with the truck.

Them fenders crack from the flexing of the frame as is goes over the crappy roads with ruts and potholes. Fortunately modern roads aren't dirt and mud anymore and are generally much smoother asphalt.

[lonewolf]

He he scott you must not be familiar with Michigan roads they were just showing a pot hole in detroit that was so big and deep it was setting off air bags in cars..

I guess that's all the more reason to box the frame...I wasn't planning on it cause I'm keeping the flathead in it

[Scott H]

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Michagan can't be any worse than Chicago area roads. Basically the same winter conditions, and the same politicians that let their road-repair buddies get the same contracts to repair the same roads year after year, after year....

[georgewarren]

Best to hammer weld with gas the cracks; mig welding will be brittle. Good luck!

[Ken Crans]

After you get all the cracks done from ideas from members above, try your hand at leading the area. Ken

[cmbrucew]

I would hate to find out that MIG welds are brittle.
My truck might fall apart.

Works good
Lasts long time

[Flathead Fever]

I had a '33 1 1/2 ton truck that someone had welded 1/2 inch rebar behind the entire length of the fender bead, I think you could have hooked a chain to the fender and pulled out tree stumps.

[OldDad]

Read something years ago about cutting a piece of EMT in half lengthwise and welding that into the lip of the fender after grinding off the finish. Seemed like a lot of work, but would probably end up being a little more elegant than the half inch rebar. But on the 1 1/2 ton, I like the rebar!

[Steel 35]

Here is how I started on mine No way your going to find a patch piece for this! I need to get pounding its the last piece for paint!

[kiwitony]

Hi steel35 I'd like to read and maybe see how you make that patch as I have a couple to do as well.Please keep us posted.

[lonewolf]

Steel 35 that's what I had to do. And I cut a piece of a donor fender to graft in its place. I'm not done yet ill try to post pictures when done

[SSsssteamer]

From experience, and also from reading from "A Ford Restoration" books. a cracked fender will get a better repair from MIG welding than from gas welding. Given the carbon content of the fender metal, the MIG weld will not become too brittle as stated above. The gas weld burns the surrounding metal, making the metal too soft and too flexible. With the lost ridigity from the gas weld, that is where the fender will first crack again. Proper fender braces do a good job at fender crack prevention. With either gas welding or with mig welding, well cleaned metal before welding is the key to a successful weld.

[36tbird]

I can't tell you the name of the MIG wire to use, but I've read on other forums about wire that gives you a softer weld, grinds smooth easier. I'd check with a reputable welding shop for the info.

[Steel 35]

Originally Posted by kiwitony

Hi steel35 I'd like to read and maybe see how you make that patch as I have a couple to do as well.Please keep us posted.

My first attempt failed I took the piece to Metal masters and left it for a day they laughed when I picked it up, had no Idea how. Second thought will be here tomorrow, Shrinker / stretcher and while waiting and searching I did see a picture that put option 3 in my Little mind will be busy this weekend.

Originally Posted by lonewolf

Steel 35 that's what I had to do. And I cut a piece of a donor fender to graft in its place. I'm not done yet ill try to post pictures when done

Sure wish I had extras! Looking forward to seeing your progress. As for my weld I will be using the wire in the new to me mig I just rolled in today cant a ford soft wire now.

[SSsssteamer]

To Steel 35, The easiest fix is to cut a repair piece out of a junk rear fender and then weld it in your good rear fender. Another fix is to create a patch panel rolled to fit the void. A hammer and dolly can work it too. After it is formed about right, then use a beading tool to get the rolled edge matched exactly to what you need. I have done the same repair many times like what you are working on. The hardest part was to make the correct dies for my beading tool. My rear fender came out perfect. If the beaded fender edge is short, a hammer and dolly can fake a beaded edge real quickly.

[FlatheadTed]

Heres one I did , I preformed the part with a swager ,You could form this by using something like the back edge of a v8 brake drum and a bolster shape hammer with a end like a blunt chisel . Mark it out with a felt tip Marker . This I hammered oxy welded in ,This makes a very strong thin join ,as the hammer action is like forging were it strengthens the weld ,I added a 1/8 X 1/2 flat stock were i bent on edge in the vice instead of the wire .

[FlatheadTed]

to get the two way curve just pound the piece on a tree stump with a ball pain hammer ,then Finnish it over a dolly then ,roll the bead ,or hammer it over the edge of a block of steel with a good edge ,

[Tom Morookian]

Contact: [email protected]

He makes patch panels for cars that might work for trucks. He hand forms them on a buck.

For some flexibility you can fiberglass in a copper or steel tube bent to the shape of the fender. spreads the stress out over a wider area.

Fat Fenders Forever

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by 36tbird

I can't tell you the name of the MIG wire to use, but I've read on other forums about wire that gives you a softer weld, grinds smooth easier. I'd check with a reputable welding shop for the info.

I think you might be thinking of the ESAB wire...called EZ weld I think?

[Steel 35]

Originally Posted by SSsssteamer

To Steel 35, The easiest fix is to cut a repair piece out of a junk rear fender and then weld it in your good rear fender. Another fix is to create a patch panel rolled to fit the void. A hammer and dolly can work it too. After it is formed about right, then use a beading tool to get the rolled edge matched exactly to what you need. I have done the same repair many times like what you are working on. The hardest part was to make the correct dies for my beading tool. My rear fender came out perfect. If the beaded fender edge is short, a hammer and dolly can fake a beaded edge real quickly.

I wish I had a piece to just weld in! Here is another Idea I found to get the hard part started. I am thinking spoon, paddle, slapper Maybe a rock?

[35window]

Do you, by chance, have a Bead Roller? With a tipping wheel on a Bead roller you could easily create the Panels you posted-otherwise, I would make them with a wooden buck-

[gerrald meacham]

ted ill take all the peaces you cut off your fine ford

[Cool Hand Lurker]

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I don't think this will help on the pickup fender because of the extra edge bead, but I made a die for this patch panel for the front fenders of my 1935 sedan. It will take some time but I could make one for the pickup if there is enough call for it. I would need a piece of the fender so I could determine the radius of the roll and the bead width and a measurement of the fender cutout radius. I know the 35 Sedan has a 15" radius on the front fender but I am not sure if that is the same as the 36 or the pickup.
No guarantee that I could make it good enough or quick enough but it is worth a try.

[gerrald meacham]

cool hand that looks good

[Fourdy]

On my 40, I had some small cracks on the lip. I sandblasted the area then welded a length of rod in for support. I then filled and shaped some heavy roofing tar paste into the lip so that water cannot stand and collect wet dirt or the fine chemicals we get on our winter roads.

Just my .02's worth.

Fourdy

[Steel 35]

Originally Posted by 35window

Do you, by chance, have a Bead Roller? With a tipping wheel on a Bead roller you could easily create the Panels you posted-otherwise, I would make them with a wooden buck-

A friend has one, I have forwarned him, bad thing is he has caller ID.

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

I don't think this will help on the pickup fender because of the extra edge bead, but I made a die for this patch panel for the front fenders of my 1935 sedan. It will take some time but I could make one for the pickup if there is enough call for it. I would need a piece of the fender so I could determine the radius of the roll and the bead width and a measurement of the fender cutout radius. I know the 35 Sedan has a 15" radius on the front fender but I am not sure if that is the same as the 36 or the pickup.
No guarantee that I could make it good enough or quick enough but it is worth a try.

If you can stamp them out they will come! That does look good.
Now you have me on option 4 or is it 5 and I am skipping right to it! got to put that 40 ton ironworker to use.....

[Steel 35]

Originally Posted by 35window

Do you, by chance, have a Bead Roller? With a tipping wheel on a Bead roller you could easily create the Panels you posted-otherwise, I would make them with a wooden buck-

I have not watched a bead roller before tonight looking up the tipping wheels, looks like another project coming on! I need to have my internet shut off. Now I started on a die, had already cut a wooden pattern, and just got the shrinker / stretcher That one is out for this project but I did give the wooden pattern a test slap tonight the wood failed, but looks promising, Still need to roll a bead but this should make a good practice piece for that as well. I should have this piece done by Monday just don't know what month.........

[FlatheadTed]

Yes Gerald shes a nice three window

Originally Posted by gerrald meacham

ted ill take all the peaces you cut off your fine ford

[kwmpa]

Originally Posted by Fourdy

On my 40, I had some small cracks on the lip. I sandblasted the area then welded a length of rod in for support. I then filled and shaped some heavy roofing tar paste into the lip so that water cannot stand and collect wet dirt or the fine chemicals we get on our winter roads.

Just my .02's worth.

Fourdy

tar is a bad idea...it never 100% seals and moistyure gets trapped behind it and causes rust out espicially in areas that use salt...tar WELL dry out and crack... at the shop the last hand full of cars had tar put in them when you go it off the tar was there but the sheetmetal that was supposed to be behind it was missing and im talking like entire kick panels....stay away....best thing to do is seal with fusor 110b from napa then prime ans see if any pin holes opened up(holes suck in primer)seal any pin holes and if you want topaint then paint or take to a shop and have truck bed liner sprayed on

[FlatheadTed]

After experimenting I realise the advice I gave is not going to work, because there is a bead around the edge ,A bead/ swagger roller is likely a good investment specially if you want to do more cars .The bit about the tree stump instead of a English wheel is relevant .

[Fourdy]

KWMPA,
Thanks for the info. Fortunately I used a small amount at the rear of the fenders. Reminds me of the saying -

Too soon old, too late smart. LOL

Fourdy

[Steel 35]

My patch for the day and it was a long one! Picture #4 was my first bead roll test but oh did I find some lead it that old girl...........

[Henry/Kokomo]

Way to go Steel 35. Nice job!

[cuzncletus]

Bubba fix. Hammer and dolly the crack back into shape. Drill out the end of the crack just like in a block and use a grinder with a metal cutting wheel to widen the gap in the crack. Cut a strip of 18 ga. (thinnest I usually keep around) about 1" wide and a little longer than the crack. From the backside hammerform it to the shape of the crack. I usually hold this piece in place with a clamp or long reach vice grips. Where there is good contact between the bandaid strip and the two sides of the crack, spot weld ACROSS from one side of the fender to the other. Now you've got the two sides of the crack connected plus a backing thickness of fresh steel. Hammering and moving the clamps for a tight fit as you go, stitch weld across like before. Soon the crack is welded and backed.

Welding across leaves a minimum of slag or unburnt wire stuck in the joint. When the crack is full, you can either turn the fender upside down and weld the edges of the bandaid 18 ga. to the fender or drill holes from the top, hammer, and fill with a rosette. (You may want to drill and clean the holes from the top in advance if you know this is what you'll need to do.) The purpose is to distribute the stress of the crack into a wider area. I do a lot of this professionally (not on cars; don't ask). If neatness is a criteria on the inside you can grind and undercoat the patch. This may not be for Pebble Beach but, then again, Pebble Beach ain't for me.

[Steel 35]

Couple more bolts and some paint on the rear bracket's, then its just detail's

[Mart]

Nice job on the repair, thanks for showing the improvised bead roller in the lathe - I have a lathe and I never thought of that before.

Mart.

[tetanus]

Originally Posted by Mike B

I think you might be thinking of the ESAB wire...called EZ weld I think?

I think its called ez grind???

[Steel 35]

Originally Posted by Mart

Nice job on the repair, thanks for showing the improvised bead roller in the lathe - I have a lathe and I never thought of that before.

Mart.

Thanks but I tried it one more time and retired it. Made dies for my new bead roller and its not near as scary. also found out the same bead is on the front fenders Noticed a reflection in my last picture right where its patched so here is one more and a close up test with the new dies.






this one is working much better now that I am done with mine!

[55 dude]

Steel 35 fantastic work!

[blucar]

It is true that the rough roads of yesteryear did contribute to the cracking of fenders on the '30 model cars/trucks, however, the main problem was broken fender braces which were not repaired or replaced.
With the exception of Ford, the majority of auto/truck manufactures incorporated a steel reinforcing rod into the roll of the fender bead. The reinforcing rod is usually 3/16 thick round, crimped into the fender, not welded into the fender.
I have had several GM vehicles, Chryco's and Int's with the fender reinforcement.
I think that the flex of the early vehicles frames was taken into consideration during the design of the chassis, however, it is hard to allow for poor maintenance by the owner.
Good welding practices and proper fender braces is the only way to repair a cracked fender.

[pinstriper40]

I just repaired a set of front fenders for a '40 plymouth coupe and I took 5/16" round rod and bent it to shape to fit inside the lip, then drilled holes in the lip and plug welded the rod to the fender. This method definitely strengthens the wheel arch.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Scott, you left out the 'million-dollar-a-mile' standard repair rate that the Illinois buddies pull in.

True story and that's for grinding off 3-4 inches of asphalt and laying down a new 3-4 inches that lasts about two years maybe three if you are very lucky, then it start all over again.

Iowa does it right, like they do in Germany. They core out the road and repour all new concrete and you are set for YEARS. Of course the Autobahn, built during the Nazis era, is still almost like new with few repairs having been done. They built things to LAST.

Jeff/Illinois ...................
A few years ago, there was a special on "The History Channel", I believe, about the Autobahn. The top coat is 27" thick ! When they work on it, they shut it down from, exit to exit, and re-do everything, quickly, with no traffic to deal with.
Your road has to be smooth if you are going to drive 200 mph !
MIKE