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Old 12-16-2010, 05:47 PM   #1
arthur
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Default 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

i've got a nice 40 ford sedan with the original f/h engine, wiring etc....that looks like its had it. have been thinking of putting a ford into a ford (302, etc.) the original running gear (trans./rear) is good..anyone have any advice, suggestions...excluding using a chevy s/b....thanks, art.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

I think the general comments from this forum are going to be keep that flathead. Besides I hear there are a few flathead experts up in those green mountains.

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Old 12-16-2010, 06:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

If the engine runs good and the drive train runs fine why not just install a new wiring harness.
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Old 12-16-2010, 07:04 PM   #4
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Smile Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

Arther i like the 302 setup. Its dependable, low maintenace, and you cabn get parts anywhere. You ncan add air to. Marv
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

If you go with a 302 Ford, you will probably need to use a rear sump oil pan and oil pickup tube. I think the older Broncos and Econolines used the rear sump pans, or they should be available aftermarket.




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Old 12-16-2010, 08:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

I think it depending on what you can do yourself,or pay someone to do the work.
The frame will have to be re worked rearend change.For starters find a adpator to 302 to 40 trans,truck oil pan,rad,clutch leakage,rear spring kits,brakes,and most of all ,"do you think you can finish it."
I hated my 39 was low geared 4.44 gears,trans problems.
I wanted a car to drive anywhere old hot rodder i guess.
I still have a flathead 8ba mercury engine,c4 auto trans,8" rear end.
Didn,t like the front end so went with Heights IFS.
I worked on it myself and when i wanted to.This summer after 4 years i drove it.
I do like the out come but if the flathead goes,I,m some what ready for a 302.
The are so many unfinished cars and trucks out there.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

I agree with Grandadeo that you'll get some of the best support on this forum to keep you Ford flathead powered. At least yours came with a flathead. My latest project came with yet another "alternative" engine... see attached... yeah, it's a Desoto Hemi. It does look like I'll be able to switch mine to a 5 spd trans and parallel leaf spgs with late model rearend WITHOUT splitting the wishbone on the front. It also seems to me that any flathead chassis, 35-40, can install a 5 spd behind their flathead without splitting the wishbone. If there is much interest, I can share some of the details.
Good luck and enjoy pursuing your project, regardless of the avenue you choose. Having fun with old cars and sharing them is the name of the game.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

I just put our 40 sedan back on the road this summer. It is a 289 powered car. The 289 with C4 trans and 8" mustang rear is nice-----but I would consider keeping the flathead engine if possible. It sort of depends what you want from the car.

Suspension wise, I kept the original type front suspension-----with modifications. I used a 4-bar system, with a 4" dropped axle, reversed eye spring. The secret to good ride and handling with the straight axle is a good anti-roll bar and shock absorbers. After some testing, I used shocks with 3 compression and 6 rebound. Gave a good ride even on rough roads. The original rear suspension needs some help-----either parallel leaf springs or coilover help to give the topheavy sedan better corner control. An antiroll bar is essential on the back and once again, shocks are the key----3 compression and 6(or 7) rebound really helps.

If you are OK with a standard shift, the original column shift transmission is fine. The same for the rear end except a 3.54 or 3.23 ratio is much better than the original 3.78.

The wiring needs to be changed and a 12 volt system with alternator is even better.
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

Did you need to modify the fire wall to install the 289/C4 combo?
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

I have a 80 year old neighbor with 11 '40 Fords, the running ones are all powered by flatheads. He is a diehard Ford guy and there is no way he would ever contaminate a Ford with a Chevy engine. Ever since I have known him he has wanted to build a ’40 Ford with a small block Ford in it. For ten years now he has made me crawl under every ‘40 Ford we see with a small block Ford in it to check if the stock front axles are still there, 90% of them are not. They are usually converted to independent front suspension to clear the small block Ford’s oil pump which hit’s the front cross member, even the ones with the rear sump Bronco oil pans. The oil pump still hit’s the front cross member with the Bronco pan. Ford moved the sump on the Bronco pans from the front to the rear to clear the Broncos front axle. From what I understand if you use the Bronco rear sump pan and trim away part of the firewall you can get a small block Ford in there with the stock axle.

I have looked at every '40 Ford with a small block Ford in So Cal and I have never seen one with a small block Ford, a stock front axle and no cut firewall. The only solution my neighbor came up with was to buy a dry sump oiling system that has a belt driven oil pump mounted off to the side of the engine. It is suppose to fit in the ’40 but he has never installed it yet.

Over the years, Frank Oddo used his ‘40 Ford with a small block Ford for many of his articles in Street Rodder Magazine. Here are a few of the magazines that mention trying to install a small block Ford in a ‘40.

May, 1975 Street Rodder pg. 71
Dec, 1991 Street Rodder pg. 190
March, 1995 Street Rodder pg 112
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

i have a 40 coupe
with a 302 and a automatic trans
still has a axle.. but has been changed to a 4 bar front..

had to cut the firewall..
no way around it.
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

I have been dreaming about installing a Dura max diesel with an Allison transmission into an old Ford. It may cost too much so I have an 89 Olds engine and transmission that may work. It is a transverse engine but if I am careful I will not have to Cut the fenders and frame up too much.This will give me front wheel drive and I plan to mount the old Ford front axle in the back and have four wheel steering.

I think I will be able to get big bucks for it on E-bay after the project is complete. There are a lot of Fords that have not been molested .After I sell the one with the Oldsmobile engine I will be able to by another unmolested old Ford and go with the Duramax Project. I may be able to install the four wheel drive. It is going to be a lot of work but I think will really have something when I am done.

I really hate the saying put a Ford in a Ford. This trite saying was started by a Ford Engine re-builder and now the street rodders feel they must put a Ford in a Ford to be cool.

A lot of people have told me not to ruin a good old Ford. They say that I should keep the old flathead and go with a better breathing system and maybe an overdrive unit. They are crazy.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

I put a 289 in a '40 Ford back in '67 and didn't cut anything! Back then you couldn't buy anything to put a Ford in a Ford. I made my own oil pan with rear sump and raised the front of engine just enough to clear the front crossmember. Also put open rear axel under it using the stock '40 suspension. I built the car in '64 with a 283 sbc in it as that was the thing to do then. It ran alot better with the 289 in it! I ran the crap out of it for years with no trouble! Sold it in '88.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by sturgis 39 View Post
I have been dreaming about installing a Dura max diesel with an Allison transmission into an old Ford. It may cost too much so I have an 89 Olds engine and transmission that may work. It is a transverse engine but if I am careful I will not have to Cut the fenders and frame up too much.This will give me front wheel drive and I plan to mount the old Ford front axle in the back and have four wheel steering.

I think I will be able to get big bucks for it on E-bay after the project is complete. There are a lot of Fords that have not been molested .After I sell the one with the Oldsmobile engine I will be able to by another unmolested old Ford and go with the Duramax Project. I may be able to install the four wheel drive. It is going to be a lot of work but I think will really have something when I am done.

I really hate the saying put a Ford in a Ford. This trite saying was started by a Ford Engine re-builder and now the street rodders feel they must put a Ford in a Ford to be cool.

A lot of people have told me not to ruin a good old Ford. They say that I should keep the old flathead and go with a better breathing system and maybe an overdrive unit. They are crazy.
Oookaaaay?
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

Sturgis 39,
Go screw up some old Chevy or some other crappy old GM car!
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Old 12-17-2010, 06:11 AM   #16
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

This is not intended to be unfriendly, angry, argumentative, exclusionary ... just a reflection of what the Ford Barn Early V8 site is supposed to be according to Ryan. If you do an internet search, you will have a hard time finding another high-quality Early Ford forum that welcomes performance FLATHEADS as well as original cars/engines.

The HAMB is a terrific site, and Ryan specifically welcomes post-flathead engine interests to that forum. He's pretty clear about this being a flathead site. ( ... many of us have interests way beyond flathead Fords, BUT this is about the intent of the forum and the group it's intended to serve, not about me, me, me ... )

Here are his words:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron
I just got an email explaining the intent of the NEW Ford barn. AS I understand it we can only discus STOCK Fords with NO modifications, as this would be a HotRod.
Hot cams, better ignitions, milled heads, etc is tabo. How about better breaks, radial tires.
So The New Ford Barn is for
restoration only?

That is not at all right... We aren't changing the direction of the Ford Barn. While the place focuses on early restoration stuff, we welcome Early Ford performance modification theories...

I think what you probably got was something related to the street rod forum being gone. The one change we have made... Stuff like putting a SBC in a '40 Ford won't be covered here.

So, are we cool? Any problems? This sound good?

Essentially, we don't want the content of the Ford Barn to change at all from what it was...
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More ...

At the time, I was really worried about all of my buddies on the HAMB over running the joint with traditional hot rods and customs. You know, stuff like blown Cads, hemis, and Olds motors stuffed in early Fords. That kind of content is more appropriate for the HAMB.

... Hell, I have a '38 coupe with a 424-inch Reyher Morrison Small Block in it. Hot Rods are my deepest rooted passion.

However, early fords with traditional overheads like Cads, Olds, Chevs, etc... get more appropriate coverage on The Jalopy Journal. It's not a "can't we all get along deal" at all.

To me, it's more appropriate for the Ford Barn to focus on Ford only stuff. In the past, the Ford Barn has mostly covered early Ford restoration and performance improvements... There have been a few side bars here and there covering Hot Rodding and I think that's cool too. I'm sure there will be some overlap between the Ford Barn and The Jalopy Journal.

My goal here is to keep the Barn pure... as it has been... I don't want to change the content of this joint at all.

I do, however, have the HAMB/TJJ to contend with. See, the HAMB/TJJ is the largest hot rod publication in the world. Over 50,000 people view that site a day... and now that I own the Ford Barn (and especially now that it's public), many of these people are going to start checking out this site. My goal is to make sure this added traffic doesn't change the essence of the Ford Barn.

That's all.

Ron, you can post about anything you like. I know your history.
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:04 AM   #17
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

I'm doing a 40 sedan, it will have a Flathead with a c4 and a fairlane rear. I couldn't bring myself to cut the beautiful firewall after all these years. There is a lot of after market parts for using an automatic trans, and an open drive shaft & diff., and a flattie makes enough power & sounds cool. Thanks to George/Maine, I'll be using a mustang 2 IFS.
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:10 AM   #18
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

If this site realy went to all stock it would be very dull.It would be about wipers,oil,and ,my car won,t start.
I can say one thing people know where to find and answer.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:46 AM   #19
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

My 40 sedan has a 289 in it, the original firewall is intact(no cutting), and the front axle is a dropped 4" unit. It did require a custom oil pan with a true rear sump, the engine is mounted a little higher than standard due to the oil pump----I also needed the rear sump for cross-steering clearance. I have one inch of clearance between the engine and firewall but have no space for a mechanical fan with the thick radiator core. Thus, a electric pusher fan is required. If you used a thin aluminum two core radiator, you could get a low pitch mechanical fan in---I just didn't choose to do that. If I can figgure out how to post photos, I will do so----help?
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:25 AM   #20
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Default Re: 1940 ford with a swap from the f/h to a s/b ford

Hopefully this will work.
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