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Old 03-15-2013, 01:29 PM   #1
spinelll
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Default Engine seized??

Iím helping a buddy assess car and I need some advice.
Facts:
  1. Itís a 30 coupe, been sitting for 2 years in a garage, dip stick shows full, anti-freeze.
  2. Before attempting to start it I placed 2 chalk marks in vital locations, pulled the plugs, put it 3rd and rocked it back and forth. I wanted to see if the engine was ďfree.Ē
  3. With great effort, we were able to push it about a foot while in gear but the engine didnít move. (We were able to move the car freely in neutral).
  4. I tried using the hand crank but it didnít budge.
  5. At that point I poured some MMO in each cylinder, returned a week later and repeated 2 thru 4 with the same results.
  6. Next, I poured an elixir of Ĺ ATF and Ĺ lacquer thinner in each cylinder, returned a week later and repeated 2 thru 4 with the same results.
  7. Then, we rolled the car out of the garage and I pushed it about 3 feet with another car. Still no engine movement.
Do you think itís seized? And what exactly does that mean? The rings are seized to the cylinder walls? The main bearing are seized?


Any other things I can check to determine if it is in fact seized?
In effect Iím helping the owner (an elderly person) but I can't remove parts from the car (oil pan, head, etc.)

Thanks boys
Leo
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Engine seized??

Sadly, this one is sounding like a tear down situation.

If you get it rolling by pulling with another vehicle you might be able to "pop" the clutch and get the engine to move? (use 1st gear for maximum torque on the engine)

You'll know if you didn't succeed if it suddenly gets REAL loose to move (broken driveshaft) or you smell the tires. (New flat spots!)

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Old 03-15-2013, 01:42 PM   #3
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Default Re: Engine seized??

Sure sounds seized to me. Most typically, if there is no issues such as leaking coolant, normal condensation will form in the cylinder bores from temperature changes. This condensation will form rust on the rings/cylinder walls locking the pistons in the bores.

Main bearings would most typically seize if the car was run out of lubricant while running, almost never from storage.

I have freed up mildly stuck engines doing just what you've already done, but was able to get a prybar onto the ring gear on the flywheel. This gives you more torque than what you've been able to develop using the "rocking" method, but can possibly harm internals if not done with a bit of finesse. This method would require the removal of the starter. If no parts can be removed, I'd suggest doing what you've already done in one week intervals and you might get lucky...though probably not.

Good luck!

PS If you do remove the head you can tap the tops of the pistons with a block of wood and a hammer and probably loosen it up if it's not too rusted.

PSS If it is too rusted, an overhaul will be in order.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Engine seized??

I'd use third gear.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Engine seized??

You may have better luck dropping the pan an inspecting the bottom end before trying any heavy pressure to turn it over. Really just to try to avoid the proplems mentioned by Joe and the long laundry list of other problems that could arise. I've seen engines that sat damp in the bottom end and when forced to turn rust around the crankshaft completely ruined the babbit.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Engine seized??

I would pull the starter and see if its stuck , probally not if you rocked it good , but it is possible .

With the starter off you can pry on the ring gear to confirm its locked up.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: Engine seized??

Looks like I type too slow
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: Engine seized??

Pull the pan because you are going to still have antifreeze in the dipper tray. I would think with antifreeze setting in there that long, you will have problems with the engine. You might get Lucky, but some thing caused the antifreeze to get in there. So at best you will have to pull the head to find out what is wrong.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Engine seized??

CORRECTION!
I typed, "dip stick shows full, anti-freeze."
I meant that a check of the dip stick showed that the oil level was good and clear. And, that a check of the radiator showed coolant to the top.

Sorry for the confusion.
Same questions apply.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Engine seized??

This may sound a little crazy but my grandpa had a different way of doing what you have already done.
His difference was to heat the engine up. In his case he run a hose from the tail pipe on the trscto over to the motor so the motor was not ice cold.. Then he heated up the oil mixture as warm as he good without catching fire.and poured it down each spark plug hole. I never witnessed it but it makes good sense that the thinner oil would flow better. He claimed that he " unstuck " many an engine useing this method.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Engine seized??

I worked one loose once with the pry bar on the ring gear method, as previously mentioned. Crack open the oil drain plug to see if there is any antifreeze in the oil. Antifreeze migrates to the bottom of a pan. If there is either water or antifreeze present, then you got big probs. Sorry. Off with the head, because of water seepage in the cylinders. Complete rebuild needs to follow.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: Engine seized??

Often it 's just a few stuck valves from condensation, We get a lot of it in the UK Must be the Rain !!!
Pull the plugs and take off the valve cover . Squirt WD 40 or similar penetrent around the valves, guides etc.
Try it a few times should free off !!!

John Cochran
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: Engine seized??

Try removing the fan belt, it could be as simple as a frozen water pump. This was the case on a 31 Vicky I bought. Also as has been mentioned, put it in 3rd gear and rock it back and forth.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: Engine seized??

HickTick may have a good point. I have had a stuck starter drive and thinking it was a dead battery, I pushed it and rocked it a bunch. I had a heck of a time removing the starter and freeing the drive. I even thad to disassemble the starter on the street.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: Engine seized??

Take out the Spark Pugs, and make a mix of 1 Quart ATF and 1 quart Acetone, using a funnel with a small hose on the outlet pour a cup into each cylinder, use the left over in equal parts into the Cylinders. Some will flow around the Valves to help free them if they are Stuck.

Let it set a few Days, then with a helper, put a 6 pt socket on the Crank Nut with a Breaker Bar and a 3 ft length of pipe, have helper use a Bar on the Ring gear, at the same time try to rotate it free. Go back and forth in both directions, but be careful to not loosen the crank nut. My Son and I have loosened a couple stuck Model A motors this way. If you don't have a socket, use a pipe wrench. On one engine we almost gave up, wouldn't budge, than my Son stood up on the Pipe to the crank and made the motions of jumping up and down, it broke Free.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:22 PM   #16
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Default Re: Engine seized??

It would seem prudent to know just 'what' is causing the seizure, prior to exerting external forces to the engine. Whenever I've had a seized engine, I always pull the head and the pan. Look..See...analyze...then do! I broke alot of things in my youth, because I was looking for the easy way out!
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:31 PM   #17
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Engine seized??

You'll apply the most torque to the motor by rocking the car in THIRD gear. In first gear the engine will get the least torque from the wheels by rolling the car, but the tranny gears and rear end will get lots of force applied to the gears. In fact in the 70's my Scout had a low battery one winter day and it was parked on the hill by my house. The bad thing is it was facing uphill, so I had to roll it backwards and pop the clutch in reverse. I wound up cracking the tranny case and messing up a shaft and gears to the tune of over $300.

Setting for 2 years shouldn't have locked up the engine, unless he ran it for only a short time, then shut if off. In the 70's I locked up 2 engines doing just that.

I'd ask the owner about running the car to see why it's locked up.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Engine seized??

I confess I questioned my own direction in the matter of which gear to use. I think Tom covered this about as well as could be done. So - change that previous to 3rd Gear.

Better a skid tire than a broken driveshaft.

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Old 03-15-2013, 07:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Engine seized??

I just unstuck a flathead with that method. I have tried it with afew A engines but had no luck. I agree with the other statement about stuck valves, but without more info on the history of the engine it is all guesse work. Rod
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: Engine seized??

Here's the link to a tool I made to unstick engines. It's really the way to go, and I used bad parts to make it, so I didn't destroy any good Model A parts.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...+stuck+engines
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Engine seized??

Have you pulled the starter? I knew of a '29 that was stored for years, when they thought the engine seized. It was only a "locked up" starter. Bill W.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:53 PM   #22
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Default Re: Engine seized??

In 1984 my father and I tried to unstick a 30 coupe by dragging it around behind our tractor with car in third gear. After a while the wheels began to turn and we thought the engine was too, but the clutch had started slipping instead. Next we took off the oil pan and jacked up one rear wheel, with the trany in third I rocked the wheel back and fourth while dad tapped on the bottom of the pistons with a long brass rod, bingo. Two hours later we were driving it around the yard giggling like school kids, that was my first ride in an A.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Engine seized??

[QUOTE=Tom Wesenberg;611842] I used bad parts to make it, so I didn't destroy any good Model A parts.
TTTTOM!, is there jail/prison time for destroying GOOD Model A parts?? Folsom Prison is close to me! Maybe I should RE-THINK this Model A hobby & get an Ol' CHEBBY & putta' OOGAH horn on it!
Bowtie Bill W.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Engine seized??

I knew a guy who liked to restore old farm tractors. He would buy old tractors with seized engines and winch ( drag) them onto his flat bed trailer. He would pull the plugs and pour on MMO. He would put it into gear either reverse or third gear. He would chain it loose on the trailer and then drive it back home. The constant rocking and jerking against the chains would free up the engine by the time he got it to his home.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Engine seized??

i had this happen to me, The camshaft was seized up, and when the deisel would soak down, i ended up busting the fiber gear and it turned
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:14 AM   #26
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Default Re: Engine seized??

I've never tried this yet, but several guys have said the best way to untick an engine is to pour black oil drained from a diesel into each cylinder.
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