Jammed door lock set screw

[WarbirdPhotog]

Hey everyone, I've got a bit of a hiccup right now trying to change out the passenger door lock on my 1940 Ford I purchased. While I've got the passenger door upholstery panel off, the handles off, and the door handle mechanism out... my next project to tackle (so I can actually lock the car) is the door lock. I have a new one, as the previous owners did not have a key for the door (it's stuck anyway) and the long square rod had snapped long ago so even with a key, it wouldn't work. Anyway, as I was trying to remove it, I noticed the set screw that secures the cylinder to the door is jammed with something broken inside it. A screwdriver bit end? Screw extractor end? Part of an Allen wrench? Drill bit? I don't know. But I can't get it out.

My next thought was to drill out whatever is in there, and then jam a torque bit in there and try turning to free the set screw. But whatever is broken in there will NOT drill, even with a cobalt drill bit. Has anyone else had this issue or have a solution to get this out without cutting into the door brace?

Photo:

[kurt v]

I would start soaking real good with P B blaster, then with a very very fine tip with O-A torch heat it up and then a left hand bit, try with a pick to get that piece out of the hole.
Or the torex bit.

good luck kurt

[ndnchf]

Following. I have a similar situation with my '35s door lock.

[deuce lover]

It appears that an attempt was made at one time and the drill bit used broke off .

[Kube]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

It appears that an attempt was made at one time and the drill bit used broke off .

Spot on!

Warbird, good luck! There are extractors for this purpose. However, their success rate is not high.

[19Fordy]

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Could you use a Dremel tool grinding bit and slowly grind down whatever is stuck in there and then retap the threads?

[Newc]

May have to remove entire lock and bench work the problem- very common problem. Newc

[deuce_roadster]

Dale, the part needed to be worked Is part of the door, not the latch I believe.

[19Fordy]

Find a machine shop that has a portable EDM machine made for removing broken taps, bolts, etc. Your local vocational tech. school might have one also.
https://www.amazon.com/Remover-Machi...01LMYQEX4?th=1

Years ago, I took a convertable top piece to a machine shop and they used an EDM machine top remove a broken bolt. Cost was $35.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by WarbirdPhotog

Hey everyone, I've got a bit of a hiccup right now trying to change out the passenger door lock on my 1940 Ford I purchased. While I've got the passenger door upholstery panel off, the handles off, and the door handle mechanism out... my next project to tackle (so I can actually lock the car) is the door lock. I have a new one, as the previous owners did not have a key for the door (it's stuck anyway) and the long square rod had snapped long ago so even with a key, it wouldn't work. Anyway, as I was trying to remove it, I noticed the set screw that secures the cylinder to the door is jammed with something broken inside it. A screwdriver bit end? Screw extractor end? Part of an Allen wrench? Drill bit? I don't know. But I can't get it out.

My next thought was to drill out whatever is in there, and then jam a torque bit in there and try turning to free the set screw. But whatever is broken in there will NOT drill, even with a cobalt drill bit. Has anyone else had this issue or have a solution to get this out without cutting into the door brace?

Photo:

Yeah. That looks like a nightmare.
Similar to what the #2 post says, Liguid Wrench spray and heat and a left hand drill.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Find a machine shop that has a portable EDM machine made for removing broken taps, bolts, etc. Your local vocational tech. school might have one also.
https://www.amazon.com/Remover-Machi...01LMYQEX4?th=1

Years ago, I took a convertable top piece to a machine shop and they used an EDM machine top remove a broken bolt. Cost was $35.

Metal disintegrator..... we had them in the Navy.
Don't know if you could get inside something confined like where that door lock is.

[19Fordy]

I wonder if there is an induction heater with a needle point that would work if inserted inside the hole where broken tap/drill is jammed?

Would a conventional coil induction heater work if you rested the coil on the surface of the hole where the broken tap or drill is located or touching the coil to the broken tap or drill to heat it up?

Watch this video showing how to use a special diamond tipped drill to remove broken tap.
It actually grinds away the broken tap or drill bit.
https://www.jcb-tools.com/diamondtech/

Have you tried using a very hard prick punch to manually chip away the tap or drill bit?
Wear safety goggles or safety glasses that have big side shields.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Mini-ductor venom is the smallest one I know of....
The coils get as small as 3/4" ID.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 1948F-1Pickup

Mini-ductor venom is the smallest one I know of....
The coils get as small as 3/4" ID.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Dale, the part needed to be worked Is part of the door, not the latch I believe.

You are correct. I have found it necessary in the past to cut the welds and rework on the bench. Not a fun project at all.
To make matters worse, the entire "assembly" is sheet metal. Virtually no room for error.
When I have had these on the bench, I cut away the old "barrel" and tack in a new one.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by kurt v

I would start soaking real good with P B blaster, then with a very very fine tip with O-A torch heat it up and then a left hand bit, try with a pick to get that piece out of the hole.
Or the torex bit.

good luck kurt

I have shot it with PB Blaster and it's soaked for a while. The problem with a torch is the small location of the hole to access it, and since it's not centered on the hole in the door, that makes things a bit more tough.

Originally Posted by deuce lover

It appears that an attempt was made at one time and the drill bit used broke off .

Correct, that's the same conclusion I came to. I thought a Cobalt drill bit might drill out a broken drill bit, but whatever metal that is made of (maybe Cobalt as well?) it will not drill.

Originally Posted by Kube

Spot on!
Warbird, good luck! There are extractors for this purpose. However, their success rate is not high.

Yes, the problem here is whatever is in the screw won't drill, which renders those pretty much ineffective sadly! And I wouldn't want to risk another one of them breaking and getting more jammed in there.

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Could you use a Dremel tool grinding bit and slowly grind down whatever is stuck in there and then retap the threads?

That's actually what I'm thinking of doing. Getting a thin grinding tool and trying to grind it out. It's going to be really tricky (and time consuming).

Originally Posted by Newc

May have to remove entire lock and bench work the problem- very common problem. Newc

That's what I'm trying to avoid. That means not only cutting off the 'sleeve' from the door but also cutting the brace of the door to get to it.

Originally Posted by 1948F-1Pickup

Metal disintegrator..... we had them in the Navy.
Don't know if you could get inside something confined like where that door lock is.

Yeah, I think it's too small of a spot, and I'd be worried it would damage the shaft the set screw goes into meaning I'd have to cut it all out to replace/repair.

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

I wonder if there is an induction heater with a needle point that would work if inserted inside the hole where broken tap/drill is jammed? Would a conventional coil induction heater work if you rested the coil on the surface of the hole where the broken tap or drill is located or touching the coil to the broken tap or drill to heat it up?

Because the shaft for the set screw is not centered in the hole (and the hole is so small), I don't think I could get the induction rings around it at all without cutting into the door.

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Watch this video showing how to use a special diamond tipped drill to remove broken tap. It actually grinds away the broken tap or drill bit.

I might need to get one of those special diamond-tipped drills.

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Have you tried using a very hard prick punch to manually chip away the tap or drill bit?

I've tried that, nothing happens. Whatever that metal is (Adamantium or Vibranium? kidding...) it will not drill or chip away.

Originally Posted by Kube

You are correct. I have found it necessary in the past to cut the welds and rework on the bench. Not a fun project at all.
To make matters worse, the entire "assembly" is sheet metal. Virtually no room for error. When I have had these on the bench, I cut away the old "barrel" and tack in a new one.

I'm hoping to avoid that until I have no other choice! To access all of that, I'd have to cut a section of the door brace off to access all that.

[deuce lover]

Dremel tool with the right tip?
The thing is that the original set screw was a slotted head.Due to corrosion the set screw is rusted in place .Trying to unscrew it causes 1/2 the screw head to break off.Now its a real mess.That's what happened to me on a 35 sedan I had.

[Randy in ca]

Here's a link to an old thread and a picture of what Drake sells for left door, to give you an idea of what you're up against:

LINK: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20473

PICTURE:

[Kube]

Originally Posted by WarbirdPhotog

I have shot it with PB Blaster and it's soaked for a while. The problem with a torch is the small location of the hole to access it, and since it's not centered on the hole in the door, that makes things a bit more tough.
Correct, that's the same conclusion I came to. I thought a Cobalt drill bit might drill out a broken drill bit, but whatever metal that is made of (maybe Cobalt as well?) it will not drill. Yes, the problem here is whatever is in the screw won't drill, which renders those pretty much ineffective sadly! And I wouldn't want to risk another one of them breaking and getting more jammed in there.
That's actually what I'm thinking of doing. Getting a thin grinding tool and trying to grind it out. It's going to be really tricky (and time consuming).
That's what I'm trying to avoid. That means not only cutting off the 'sleeve' from the door but also cutting the brace of the door to get to it.
Yeah, I think it's too small of a spot, and I'd be worried it would damage the shaft the set screw goes into meaning I'd have to cut it all out to replace/repair.
Because the shaft for the set screw is not centered in the hole (and the hole is so small), I don't think I could get the induction rings around it at all without cutting into the door.
I might need to get one of those special diamond-tipped drills.
I've tried that, nothing happens. Whatever that metal is (Adamantium or Vibranium? kidding...) it will not drill or chip away.
I'm hoping to avoid that until I have no other choice! To access all of that, I'd have to cut a section of the door brace off to access all that.

This is not an easy task whatsoever. That thing Drake sells is a lot beefier than the Ford OEM piece.
Removing a broken drill bit is never fun. This one? Even less fun than most. I'm not a naysayer but would give you success rate at less than 1%.
A drill bit is fairly hard, even a cheap one. The fact that you can't center a diamond bit on the end of the broken one compounds the issue.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by Randy in ca

Here's a link to an old thread and a picture of what Drake sells for left door, to give you an idea of what you're up against:

Thanks for the forum link. I think my best bet, at this point, is to try and dremel it out and then tap at a larger side. I like the idea of using a screw rather than the set screw, as long as it fits. So I'll see what I can do with that. Otherwise, if I have to cut off the whole sleeve, it might be easier to just buy that Bob Drake driver's door set (I've been looking at it last two days), cut that sleeve off the plate it comes with, and then weld it on mine. But let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by Kube

This is not an easy task whatsoever. That thing Drake sells is a lot beefier than the Ford OEM piece.
Removing a broken drill bit is never fun. This one? Even less fun than most. I'm not a naysayer but would give you success rate at less than 1%.
A drill bit is fairly hard, even a cheap one. The fact that you can't center a diamond bit on the end of the broken one compounds the issue.

And that's where I wonder if the Dremel can possibly (and slowly) grind it out. I don't care if I damage/destroy the lock on there now, it's not only broken/jammed but it also appears to be a 41-49 style lock and not correct anyway. So the important parts are to get the set screw dremeled out, re-tap with a larger size, and use a screw with a slotted flat head (and maybe some anti-size on the threads for future removal)

[19Fordy]

Warbird: Before you try other ideas, try using these first. Even if you end up using a couple of sets, it's worth it.

https://www.temu.com/subject/n9/goog...ctx=f-78ce0f3a

[19Fordy]

https://www.temu.com/subject/n9/goog...ctx=f-78ce0f3a

Sorry for the repeat.

[19Fordy]

More here:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=diamon...ANAB01&PC=HCTS

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Warbird: Before you try other ideas, try using these first. Even if you end up using a couple of sets, it's worth it.

I plan to grab these this evening and give them a try on Thursday when I can next work on the vehicle.
https://www.harborfreight.com/diamon...ece-69653.html

[tom1948]

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I just had something similar, there was a broken stud on a tail light housing, someone had tried to drill it out and broke the bit in the hole. I drilled down until I could see the end of the bit and worked it with 2 needle picks until it was loose in the hole, then, I could get it out. time and patience my friend. tom

[rich b]

If you end needing to replace the treaded tube; get a 10-32 rod coupler. Works great to replace a messed up original. Then use a regular set screw (with a little never-seize) instead of the slotted original style. Not stock; but....

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by rich b

If you end needing to replace the treaded tube; get a 10-32 rod coupler. Works great to replace a messed up original. Then use a regular set screw (with a little never-seize) instead of the slotted original style. Not stock; but....

Thanks for the info! I've already been starting to think about what I might do if the dremeling does not work.

[WarbirdPhotog]

UPDATE: I started to dremel the hole with a diamond-tipped bit... Good news is that it is indeed grinding it out. Bad news is that it's going very slow and already chewed up three bits. So it's going to be a game of patience and how many trips I want to make to Harbor Freight to get more dremel bits. But it seems to be working.

[ndnchf]

Maybe look for a set of carbide grinding tips. They are super hard and sharp and eat through steel like it is warm cheese. I have a set for my Dremel, they are very handy.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by ndnchf

Maybe look for a set of carbide grinding tips. They are super hard and sharp and eat through steel like it is warm cheese. I have a set for my Dremel, they are very handy.

Just went and looked those up. I like the idea, but they don't seem to be small enough to go into the hole. All the ones on Amazon seem large.

[ndnchf]

Originally Posted by WarbirdPhotog

Just went and looked those up. I like the idea, but they don't seem to be small enough to go into the hole. All the ones on Amazon seem large.

Here are some mini sizes. They go down to 1/16".

https://www.championcuttingtool.com/...-Carbide-Burs/

Try search for mini or micro carbide burr.

[Bob C]

I would try a 1/8 inch 4 flute center cutting carbide end mill in the dremel.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by Bob C

I would try a 1/8 inch 4 flute center cutting carbide end mill in the dremel.

"Slow" on a Dremel is pretty darn fast for that kind of cutting tool.....

[fortyfords]

I spent about five and a half hours drilling out one of those very hard set screws. I wore out some drill bits but I hit one drill bit that was tough and it drilled through enough that an easy out backed out the remaining piece of set screw. It took a lot of patience.

[1948F-1Pickup]

An Artu slotted (carbide) drill bit would probably be able to do the job…..

[Kube]

The problem with this method is removing the broken drill bit without damaging the threads so bad as to make them useless.
Remember the 'assembly" is made of thin metal. A little bit "off" one way or the other and the threads are toast.

While I wish warbird the best of fortune, from experience, I can warn of poor odds of success.

[Karl Wescott]

Just a thought here... If Warbird can find a LH twist drill bit for drilling out the remainder of the set screw he might get lucky and have the screw unstick and get pulled out by the bit.

[woodiewagon46]

Unless you get the broken drill bit out first, then there isn't much that can do. Using an end mill would be useless as the broken drill bit is going to snap the flutes of the end mill immediately. The location of the part is the biggest issues as it's almost impossible to get at. I was lucky when I needed to work on the doors on my 1946 Ford Station Wagon as the lock screws came out fairly easy. When I replaced them I used stainless steel set screws and gob's of anti-seize. You might need to do some serious surgery to get the lock assembly out.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by Kube

The problem with this method is removing the broken drill bit without damaging the threads so bad as to make them useless.
Remember the 'assembly" is made of thin metal. A little bit "off" one way or the other and the threads are toast.

While I wish warbird the best of fortune, from experience, I can warn of poor odds of success.

It's really a game of attrition now. I'm trying to Dremel out the super hard whatever-it-is that is jammed inside the set screw. At this point, I've used up about 10 dremel bits (diamond head) and I'm only about 25% of the way there. So this will take a lot of time and dremel bits. At this point, there's no way I'm going to recover the original threads. That being said, there still seems to be enough 'meat' on the tube that I could possibly tap new threads carefully and, even though it won't be OEM, use a slotted screw. But, I just gotta dremel this thing out, and it's sure not easy.

[19Fordy]

Warbird: Hang in there with the patience of a toothache and you will win.
Here are a couple of photos of my 40 fasteners.
First two photos are of passenger door.
3rd photo is of driver door.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Warbird: Hang in there with the patience of a toothache and you will win.
Here are a couple of photos of my 40 fasteners.
First two photos are of passenger door.
3rd photo is of driver door.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Warbird: Hang in there with the patience of a toothache and you will win.
Here are a couple of photos of my 40 fasteners.
First two photos are of passenger door.
3rd photo is of driver door.

Thank you! I need to go get some mire bits so I can continue. Once I finally get it, I'll update the thread with how long/how many bits/what I ended up doing after.

[19Fordy]

Warbird: Great. Your continued perserverence and patient will yield success.

[cmbrucew]

Wb


An idea, dremmel the hole out bigger so you can get heat on it. Red hot , then let it cool. Easy to drill out then. Hardware store for a snap in plug/cover to fill your hole


Bruce

[WarbirdPhotog]

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UPDATE - So after a few weeks of using diamond-tipped dremel bits, different cobalt drill bits, and different cutting oils, I've made process drilling out this insanely hard item inside the door lock set screw tube. From what I can see, I'm about 75-80% of the way there. I haven't been tackling it every day, but when I do, I spend about 2-3 hours slowly drilling it away. I'm feeling pretty good that I will break through in another 3-4 hours worth of drilling.

[Planojc]

When all this is over, you will be a highly trained dentist.

[19Fordy]

That's encouraging news. Be sure and post photos.
Now, get back to your door dentistry.

[WarbirdPhotog]

It took about a month of on and off again work...
- Three sets of diamond-tipped drill bits (I could only use about 30% of them, the rest were too fine point)
- One expensive set of cobalt Milwaukee drill bits
- One screw extractor set from Harbor Freight (turns out, that was tougher than the Milwaukee Cobalt bits!)
- Two dremels (one broke during the dremeling)
- Angle grinder with 80 grit flap wheel
- Lots of Oil to cool the bits

... BUT THE LOCK IS OUT!

After drilling for several weeks, I noticed the lock started to rock a little bit in the sleeve. Then after a bit more, I could push it out about 4/16 of an inch and back in. Now that I could push it away from the door a little bit, I took an angle grinder with a flap wheel and completely removed the 'head' of the lock. I didn't want to attempt this when it was flush with the door as I could nick the door.

Even with the head removed, I couldn't get it out still pushing it outwards or inwards, so I continued on with the combination diamond-tipped dremel bits (on medium-slow speed, which seemed to work well prolonging their life), the colbat drill bits, and eventually the screw extractor bit. It was a lot of standing around just slowly grinding away, then I'd give the Dremel a break as I used the cobalt bits to clean up the hole.

Eventually, I was able to push it in nearly and inch. But, it still wouldn't come all the way out, so I turned my attention to the front head that I had removed, and I used the screw extractor drill bit to drill a hole into the recessed area where the screw was jammed into the cylinder. This worked perfectly, it finally freed the cylinder pushing it inward! You have no idea how excited I was to hear that thing fall out.



Above is the lock cylinder, finally removed. The head and cover of the lock removed.



A look inside the door sleeve, you can see there's still a remnant of whatever was jammed in there (some sort of grade 8 screw or something!) That was the last thing holding everything up.



Looking at the front of the cylinder, you can see where I drilled in from the front to finally free it.

Now I just need to tap new threads in there for a larger screw. Hopefully, this thread will help someone else in the future with the same issue! It just takes a lot of time and patience (and a bunch of grinding/drill bits!)

[ndnchf]

Wow - congrats. Party time!

[19Fordy]

WOW! Goody, goody gumdrop!

Your perserverance paid off.

[TJ]

Be careful of the size tap that you use. That tube that contains the set screw is does not have a very thick wall.

[Karl Wescott]

The set screw should not have a lot of force needed to do the job. If you can get the rest of the old screw out consider running a tap in the hole to clean things up then pack the hole with JB Weld (or other metal filled epoxy), re-drill and re-tap.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by Karl Wescott

The set screw should not have a lot of force needed to do the job. If you can get the rest of the old screw out consider running a tap in the hole to clean things up then pack the hole with JB Weld (or other metal filled epoxy), re-drill and re-tap.

That was actually my thought process. Unfortunately, to drill through, I had to go larger than the original thread size, so I'm going to see what I can tap to (something slightly larger than #10), and then pack with JB Weld steal, let cure for a few days, then drill/tap the original size.

[Bob C]

Is there enough meat to use a helicoil?

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Is there enough meat to use a helicoil?

Do they make helicoils that small?

[Bob C]

McMaster-Carr shows them down to 0-80
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/th...-type~helical/