The Ford Barn

Robi321 · 01-01-2016, 12:57 PM

So, my 25 Tudor has been sitting for a while (2years) waiting for me to have time to work on it. Yesterday I figure is a good day... I wanted to start with some fresh oil in the engine, however, when I emptied it, it was loaded with water. After a little further looking around, I noticed a crack front to back on the top of the head in the water jacket. The question is, will a cracked head cause the water in oil condition or am I looking at an issue with the block too?

redmodelt · 01-01-2016, 02:10 PM

Pull the head and find out. Hard for us to play a guessing game without knowing where you live and if you are subject to freezing weather so no use trying to guess at this point. But yes, if the crack is inside the combustion chamber water can get in the crankcase.

Robi321 · 01-01-2016, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Pull the head and find out. Hard for us to play a guessing game without knowing where you live and if you are subject to freezing weather so no use trying to guess at this point. But yes, if the crack is inside the combustion chamber water can get in the crankcase.

Was definitely subjected to freezing, last winter was pretty bad in North Jersey. I will have to pull it and take a look.

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Robi321 · 01-02-2016, 02:26 PM

Found the problem, NOT what I wanted to see. Looks like either a crack or a rust pinhole, not sure at this point. Might be a t for sale soon

Dobie Gillis · 01-02-2016, 04:23 PM

Before you decide to peddle it try some block sealer that has sodium silicate in it, also known as water glass. It's a permanent seal and I've seen it seal cracks wide enough to stick a razor blade in. Be sure to follow the directions to the letter.

Robi321 · 01-02-2016, 04:56 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobie Gillis

Before you decide to peddle it try some block sealer that has sodium silicate in it, also known as water glass. It's a permanent seal and I've seen it seal cracks wide enough to stick a razor blade in. Be sure to follow the directions to the letter.

It may be worth the try. Thanks

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Robi321 · 01-03-2016, 12:54 PM

Pinhole? Nope...
Crack? Nope...
How about a hole a little bigger than a dime, seems to me that it was plugged by a previous owner with some type of metal epoxy...

Anybody know of a decent repair for this without replacing the block?

Dobie Gillis · 01-03-2016, 01:11 PM

You might be able to drill the hole to a standard pipe plug size and install a plug with a non-hardening sealer. This would depend on where the hole is and whether the plug would interfere with anything, and if it does you could possibly grind the plug down for clearance. Otherwise it would need to be welded, not a cheap proposition. Some machine shops repair castings. You could ask around to see if you can find someone.

Robi321 · 01-03-2016, 01:28 PM

Thanks, not too happy about this...

Dobie Gillis · 01-03-2016, 01:59 PM

Can't say I blame ya. You might check your area for someplace that repairs industrial castings. I had a cracked flathead done by a shop in Houston several years ago and it's held up so far.

Robi321 · 01-03-2016, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobie Gillis

Can't say I blame ya. You might check your area for someplace that repairs industrial castings. I had a cracked flathead done by a shop in Houston several years ago and it's held up so far.

Next few days I am going to look around and see what the best options are.

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Farmallcub49 · 01-03-2016, 09:21 PM

That sucks. To repair it properly, the block needs to be heated up to weld it. During the heating process the babbitt melts out of the main bearings, so this would include at least repouring the main bearings and machine work. But, the rest of the engine could use the rebuild as well. You might try removing the engine and turning it upside down and soldering the hole shut. The best way is just to find another block and have it rebuilt. I am sure none of these are what you wanted to hear. You can always sell as is, disclosing the hole.

Robi321 · 01-04-2016, 10:55 AM

Didn't think of trying to solder it. do you think brazing would get it to hot and melt the Babbitt?

super flat · 01-04-2016, 11:50 AM

No I don't think that would hurt the babbit but drilling and a plug shure seems better if possible. Gary

J and M Machine · 01-04-2016, 08:39 PM

That is a casting defect.
We can fix it by installing a pice and metal stitch it but engine needs to come apart and get checked "magna fluxed" as there may be other areas of damage due to freezing.
http://www.jandm-machine.com/metalStitching.html

Dodge · 01-05-2016, 12:11 AM

If it was mine, I think I would pull the head and clean everything up real well, put tape
over the hole in the valve chamber and put a few good layers of JB Weld over the tape.
Then, I would put some more in from the valve chamber side, drive the hell out of it
and keep an eye on it.
I have seen the JB do some amazing things. Cheapest fix with nothing to loose at this
point.
Other than that I would go with another block.

Steve Jelf · 01-05-2016, 10:59 AM

If this was an early brass car, repair would be worthwhile. But it's a 1925. Ford made almost two million of them. I would investigate the cost of repair versus buying another block. The latter may be cheaper.

Robi321 · 01-05-2016, 05:45 PM

Dodge,
This just may be the plan. There really is nothing to lose to try this.

Victoriabaoq · 01-06-2016, 04:56 AM

hello, i am new here

Dodge · 01-06-2016, 06:24 AM

Well, knock,knock who's ther. Tell us a little bit about yourself and if you have a car or looking for or just like them or whatever.
Always nice to have some one new on here.

01-01-2016, 12:57 PM	#1
Robi321 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Essex County NJ Posts: 29	Water in the oil question So, my 25 Tudor has been sitting for a while (2years) waiting for me to have time to work on it. Yesterday I figure is a good day... I wanted to start with some fresh oil in the engine, however, when I emptied it, it was loaded with water. After a little further looking around, I noticed a crack front to back on the top of the head in the water jacket. The question is, will a cracked head cause the water in oil condition or am I looking at an issue with the block too? __________________ 1925 Tudor (a work in progress) "You have two ears and one mouth for a reason, You should listen twice as much as you talk"

01-01-2016, 02:10 PM	#2
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,342	Re: Water in the oil question Pull the head and find out. Hard for us to play a guessing game without knowing where you live and if you are subject to freezing weather so no use trying to guess at this point. But yes, if the crack is inside the combustion chamber water can get in the crankcase.

01-02-2016, 04:23 PM	#5
Dobie Gillis Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Middle TN Posts: 1,060	Re: Water in the oil question Before you decide to peddle it try some block sealer that has sodium silicate in it, also known as water glass. It's a permanent seal and I've seen it seal cracks wide enough to stick a razor blade in. Be sure to follow the directions to the letter.

01-03-2016, 01:11 PM	#8
Dobie Gillis Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Middle TN Posts: 1,060	Re: Water in the oil question You might be able to drill the hole to a standard pipe plug size and install a plug with a non-hardening sealer. This would depend on where the hole is and whether the plug would interfere with anything, and if it does you could possibly grind the plug down for clearance. Otherwise it would need to be welded, not a cheap proposition. Some machine shops repair castings. You could ask around to see if you can find someone.

01-03-2016, 01:28 PM	#9
Robi321 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Essex County NJ Posts: 29	Re: Water in the oil question Thanks, not too happy about this... __________________ 1925 Tudor (a work in progress) "You have two ears and one mouth for a reason, You should listen twice as much as you talk"

01-03-2016, 01:59 PM	#10
Dobie Gillis Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Middle TN Posts: 1,060	Re: Water in the oil question Can't say I blame ya. You might check your area for someplace that repairs industrial castings. I had a cracked flathead done by a shop in Houston several years ago and it's held up so far.

01-03-2016, 09:21 PM	#12
Farmallcub49 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: St Joseph,MN Posts: 278	Re: Water in the oil question That sucks. To repair it properly, the block needs to be heated up to weld it. During the heating process the babbitt melts out of the main bearings, so this would include at least repouring the main bearings and machine work. But, the rest of the engine could use the rebuild as well. You might try removing the engine and turning it upside down and soldering the hole shut. The best way is just to find another block and have it rebuilt. I am sure none of these are what you wanted to hear. You can always sell as is, disclosing the hole. __________________ 'OSO HANDY RESTORATIONS Specializing in Model T Fords 320-293-1953

01-04-2016, 10:55 AM	#13
Robi321 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Essex County NJ Posts: 29	Re: Water in the oil question Didn't think of trying to solder it. do you think brazing would get it to hot and melt the Babbitt? __________________ 1925 Tudor (a work in progress) "You have two ears and one mouth for a reason, You should listen twice as much as you talk"

01-04-2016, 11:50 AM	#14
super flat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: west bend wi Posts: 314	Re: Water in the oil question No I don't think that would hurt the babbit but drilling and a plug shure seems better if possible. Gary __________________ I am usually relatively happy------Gary

01-04-2016, 08:39 PM	#15
J and M Machine Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: 40 Mt.Vickery Rd. Southborough,MA 508-460-0733 Posts: 352	Re: Water in the oil question That is a casting defect. We can fix it by installing a pice and metal stitch it but engine needs to come apart and get checked "magna fluxed" as there may be other areas of damage due to freezing. http://www.jandm-machine.com/metalStitching.html

01-05-2016, 12:11 AM	#16
Dodge Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Sonoma, CA. Posts: 1,497	Re: Water in the oil question If it was mine, I think I would pull the head and clean everything up real well, put tape over the hole in the valve chamber and put a few good layers of JB Weld over the tape. Then, I would put some more in from the valve chamber side, drive the hell out of it and keep an eye on it. I have seen the JB do some amazing things. Cheapest fix with nothing to loose at this point. Other than that I would go with another block.

01-05-2016, 10:59 AM	#17
Steve Jelf Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Parkerfield KS Posts: 526	Re: Water in the oil question If this was an early brass car, repair would be worthwhile. But it's a 1925. Ford made almost two million of them. I would investigate the cost of repair versus buying another block. The latter may be cheaper.

01-05-2016, 05:45 PM	#18
Robi321 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Essex County NJ Posts: 29	Re: Water in the oil question Dodge, This just may be the plan. There really is nothing to lose to try this. __________________ 1925 Tudor (a work in progress) "You have two ears and one mouth for a reason, You should listen twice as much as you talk"

01-06-2016, 04:56 AM	#19
Victoriabaoq Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 1	Re: Water in the oil question hello, i am new here __________________ cheap Vintage Wedding Dress

01-06-2016, 06:24 AM	#20
Dodge Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Sonoma, CA. Posts: 1,497	Re: Water in the oil question Well, knock,knock who's ther. Tell us a little bit about yourself and if you have a car or looking for or just like them or whatever. Always nice to have some one new on here.