Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-13-2012, 03:41 PM   #1
ken-r-mer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 101
Default 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

Finishing up a rebuild of a 51 merc 3-speed overdrive trans that will be going into a '52 Ford F-1. Gears are all good with no chips. Replaced all the seals and gaskets. Now I noticed some wear on what is the low/reverse fork. See the attached pics.

The wear difference is about 0.045" (0.245" to 0.200"). Is this still usable? Tried VanPelt Sales, but no NOS. Anybody have a discombubulated '51 ford or merc 3-speed trans that has a low/reverse fork in better shape than this?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg reverse fork front.jpg (20.7 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg reverse fork rear.jpg (20.2 KB, 38 views)

Last edited by ken-r-mer; 04-13-2012 at 06:55 PM.
ken-r-mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 05:40 PM   #2
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

If you have the later style transmission that came available in mid 1951 on the Mercury cars (narrow front, 4-bolt pattern), then it was used on Ford and Mercury cars from 1951 thru at least 1953 (P/N 1A-7231-A). If you have the early 51 Mercury trans with the round front bolt pattern like the early Ford cars then it is a 49 through early 51 Mercury only part 8M-7231. I don't have spares for those so I can't help you.

That fork looks like it had some push back from the low gear for some reason. Either that or someone was just plain hard on the first gear shifts. Reverse gear seldom ever gives problems unless some one got stuck in the mud and was speed shifting from low to reverse a way lot more than they should have.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-13-2012, 06:50 PM   #3
ken-r-mer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 101
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

Based on the Van Pelt diagrams, and review of the trans, its a late '51 -'53 (Van Pelt says '54) Mercury trans. It has the small 4 bolt pattern at the bell housing.

The reason I selected this trans is it has the near identical clutch linkage setup as my '52 F-1. After looking and doing multiple measurements, its a matter of a new trans mount further back, drive shaft shortening, as well as removing the right half of the existing trans mount to clear the overdrive solenoid, and diagonal bracing the remaining portion of the existing support with the existing clutch linkage assembly.

The trans came with the cast iron bellhousing with the rotating shaft clutch linkage setup, flywheel, pressure plate, clutch, and all of the overdrive electrical items, The gear clusters were like new with no visible wear...except this low/reverse fork. The other fork has minimal wear.

Maybe the the logical choice is to find a good welder that could add the necessary metal to the cast iron and with some finish grinding, I'dbe in good shape to button up the trans.

Last edited by ken-r-mer; 04-14-2012 at 08:46 AM.
ken-r-mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 10:48 PM   #4
Karl Wolf
Senior Member
 
Karl Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mill Valley,Ca.
Posts: 1,509
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

You could consider looking at the surface this rode on, might want to polish it a bit... This is a pretty common part, as it's real common for people to rob side shifter boxes to fill top loaders, and this will be a left over...
My first thought about building this up would be to use brass, easy to apply by torch. And brass runs well on steel... Or maybe tig on some bronze... Finnish with a file...
Karl

Last edited by Karl Wolf; 04-13-2012 at 10:51 PM. Reason: I never get it right the first time, so
Karl Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 10:08 AM   #5
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

The late 51 Merc bell housing is an excellent candidate for addapting any of the Borg Warner narrow 4-bolt transmissions to the 8BA family of flathead V8s. If you can find one of the offset rocker set ups for the solenoid that the convertible cars used, it would likely get the thing out of the way of the frame members. I've seen a fellow fabricate one of these or similar contraption over on the HAMB. There is an illustration of one in the 49 to 53 Ford car chassis parts catalog. It relocates the solenoid down underneath the tail shaft housing and push & pull activates the overdrive through a rocker arm much like an OHV engine works the valves.

You can braze it up but that transmission was relatively popular in the early 50s. You should be able to find one somewhere. Joblot in NY or Stacy Brown at Antique Auto Supply in Arlington, TX may have NOS parts for them. The 52 & 53 cars still aren't as popular as the smaller shoe box cars are. Flat Top Bob at Owen's Salvage Co in Wellington, TX has a salvage yard with a lot of cars that go back into that era.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 04-14-2012 at 10:21 AM.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 11:53 AM   #6
jdl
Senior Member
 
jdl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 931
Send a message via ICQ to jdl
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Try Shoebox Ford Parts 1-800-732-6029

http://www.shoeboxford.com/public/main.cfm
jdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 07:27 PM   #7
ken-r-mer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 101
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

Rotorwrench,

Looked high and low for that "offset" solenoid setup, for the convertible, without success. Eyes are getting tired searching the 'net.

Van Pelt sales mentioned the convertible setup as being different than the "standard" setup, but nothing more.

Will mention it to Joblot and Antique Auto Supply when I contact them. Just was hoping to see what that offset looks like beforehand.
ken-r-mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 05:55 PM   #8
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

Here is a link to some pictures of a home made set up on the HAMB.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...olenoid&page=2
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 06:06 PM   #9
ken-r-mer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 101
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

Good news, Antique Auto Supply in Arlington, TX had NOS on the low/reverse fork.
ken-r-mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 06:23 PM   #10
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,367
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

In case you need it, here is an illustration of the overdrive plate & lever used on convertible cars. You may have to open it in a new window to see it better.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg overdrive plate & lever - Copy.jpg (50.0 KB, 13 views)
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 06:48 PM   #11
ken-r-mer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 101
Default Re: 1951 merc 3-speed overdrive wear

rotorwrench,

The Ford solution of the offset seems an elaborate way to solve the problem. Thanks for the info on the homemade unit too. Think I'll try to mount the trans w/o the solenoid and then determine the amount of existing trans support needed to be cut away to be able to mount the solenoid with enough necessary clearance. Then hopefully fabricate, with about 4-6 bolts, a "U" shaped plate (heavier gauge than the trans support) to reinforce the existing trans support where it is cut away. The "U" will route around the solenoid when its mounted. That seems the most direct solution at this juncture. Won't know how much has to be cut away till I mount the trans. Will take pics of the procedure and post. Then its a matter of fabbing a new rear trans support.

Last edited by ken-r-mer; 04-16-2012 at 09:45 PM.
ken-r-mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:59 AM.