Installed Early v8 Garage hydraulic kit - Pedal spongy

[ScubaChief60]

Hello all.
I installed the Early V8 Garage Hydraulic brake kit on my 1935 Ford Fordor. It went well but I am not able to get the sponginess out of the pedal. I can pump the brake pedal three or four times and its then fine and will even skid the front tires. I have bled the system three times and I have no drips anywhere at any fitting. Thoughts appreciated. Fixes appreciated more. Thanks!

[Krylon32]

Silicone or Dot 3 fluid? Did you bench bleed the MC? Still sounds like you have air somewhere.

[51504bat]

Brakes adjusted correctly?

[ScubaChief60]

Hey... thanks for the quick responses. I used Prestone DOT 4 Max Synthetic Brake Fluid. No silicone as far as I can tell. Did not bench bleed the MC. Did adjust the brakes so that they contact the drums slightly. I suppose I'll try bleeding them again with vacuum bleeder this time and maybe remove the MC first and bench bleed. Could it be that the MC is not fully retracting? Would that also cause this symptom.

[slowforty]

I found out that the old fashioned tube in the clear container works best. You can see when all the bubbles stop. As long as you have help pumping the brake pedal.

[ScubaChief60]

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That's the way I used to do it for the last 50 years... If I can get my wife to assist... I'll try that again first. Thanks!

[richard crow]

always bleed master cyl before installing . now you are paying the price of not doing it bleed the master now have some one push on pedal & open the lines leaving the master cyl

[glennpm]

It is unnecessary to bleed single pot master cylinders which his kit provides.
What are using for the flexible hoses?

[Terry,OH]

Suggest adjusting the brakes so each has a heavy drag, then bleed the brakes. Then readjust so there is a slight drag to each shoe.

[ScubaChief60]

This is all good information and I appreciate it all.

Based upon the replies I will disconnect the Tee connector at end of MC and bleed the MC that way (assume this will achieve same result as 'bench bleeding' am I correct?)

Then I'll reconnect and bleed the entire system the old fashioned way with two people.

I will also confirm I have the recommended 1/16 inch free travel at MC piston so that a complete release is achieved with pedal up position.

I'll also tightly adjust each drum to shoe to eliminate play there.

I sat in the vehicle this morning and noticed that it takes a few pumps on the pedal to even get the pressure sensing brake light switch to function so I am now leaning towards my failure to bench bleed the MC initially as the main culprit.

I'll post about any successes

Again I thank all of you for your suggestions!

[deuce_roadster]

I believe those kits come with a dual chamber MC. Is yours a Drum/Drum one? Please verify what kind of MC you are using and do you have residual pressure valves in use ? I have 2 of those kits and they both came with residual pressure valves.

[mrtexas]

Without the shoes fitted to the individual drums you have little chance of a good pedal. Better yet is get bendix backing plates.

[ScubaChief60]

Hello 'deuce_roadster'... I did not receive residual pressure valves in my kit. I have a very simple MC that came with the kit... looks like a single piston and I do have it plumbed to the Lincoln Bendix front brakes with the new drums and shoes and backing plates and special king pin kit. I may need to consider residual pressure valves if they make a difference.

...and to 'mrtexas', I am using the original drums and mechanisms in the rear with the addition of two new hydraulic wheel cylinders. I will likely update the rear brakes as well. Is Boiling Brothers rear kit best or is there a version where I can use my rear drums and just replace backing plates and shoes in the rear... that you can recommend?

[ScubaChief60]

Never answered 'glennpm' hoses ? I see

Two 12 inch 7/16" fittings flexible hoses came with the Lincoln Bendix drum kits for the front. The rear flexible hoses I was able to purchase at NAPA.

[glennpm]

Originally Posted by ScubaChief60

Never answered 'glennpm' hoses ? I see

Two 12 inch 7/16" fittings flexible hoses came with the Lincoln Bendix drum kits for the front. The rear flexible hoses I was able to purchase at NAPA.

The kit you installed with the single chamber, will have a residual pressure check valve as part of the master cylinder. These singles are usually for drum brake cars and provide about 10 psi of residual pressure. For example



Single chamber masters don't require bench bleeding, waste of effort.

You've been talking about front brakes but then mention buying Boiling Brother's rears. What do you have for rear brake hoses and wheel cylinders? Are they old ones from a previous hydraulic conversion?

Did you start bleeding from the rear first? Usually the right rear is first but for early Fords, the lengths are the same for both rears so no matter. Anyway the bleeding should start with the wheel that has the longest tubing run first.

Glenn

[ScubaChief60]

Good morning Glenn...

Your diagram is my MC. It is perfect.

The rear wheel cylinders were provided with the kit from Early V8 Garage and I have modified the original rear mounting plates to accommodate them. The rear hoses were not provided in my kit but I was able to get good quality hoses from NAPA that were perfect fits for the wheel cylinders and fit for the pre-bent brake line fittings... at 7/16" on both male and female ends.

Now about bleeding the brakes... I did just as you suggested... right rear first then moved to left rear and then right front and then left front.

My next attempt will be to verify that I have a complete release of the MC piston with pedal up (and the suggested 1/16" free play according to the kit instructions...) then another bleeding the old fashioned way with two people and testing the system.

If that does not do it then I am most likely replacing the rear assemblies (backing plates etc.) with a much better setup from Bolling Brothers or otherwise. Suggestions on the best replacements for the rear are appreciated from anyone on this thread.

Thanks to all. It is greatly appreciated!

[glennpm]

Good morning!

Good on your rear brake lines and hoses. There have been some issues with replacement wheel cylinders but from all reports the V8 Garage is a quality operation and this may not apply to your's.

From what you've described, I bet you're going to have success this time. If not it may be the wheel cylinders. This is a good thread from RonnieRoadster regarding this issue:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...heel+cylinders

I have the Boiling Brother's rear setup with 1 3/4" wide shoes, on my '32 and used original, near perfect brake drums. I did have to sand the brake shoes to fit them. the shoe outside diameter was just a little too large. Pics attached.

Good luck!

[glennpm]

Sooo ... what did you find?

[ScubaChief60]

Sorry for the delay... but it took 10 days for my Boiling Brother's rear setup with 1 3/4" wide shoes to arrive. Got them installed and bled the brakes just today... the old fashioned way with two people. The brakes are now perfect. If I jam them hard I think it may put my nose into the windshield. It's a beautiful day here today in the Piedmont of NC so I convinced my wife to take a cruise out through the countryside. It was a perfect 20 mile round trip. On another note... anyone have any idea what kind of MPG I can expect with my 85 HP V8 Flathead?

[ScubaChief60]

Also... I wish all on this forum a very happy Thanksgiving!!!