The Ford Barn

palmaceae · 07-25-2010, 07:39 PM

If I pull the brake lever all the way back on the left front brake assembly, the shoes do not grab. Should I be looking at the horizontal shaft or the operating pin? The shoes are new, the hardware is new with the exception of the above mentioned shafts. I realize there is a lot of unknowns here but just want to see what to check first.
Thanks

MAG · 07-25-2010, 07:55 PM

When all parts are as new. and shoes adjusted properly, the brake lever will point forward about 15 deg. from vertical. This can usually be accomplished by adding brake "pellets" in the operating wedge under the vertical operating pin. The shoes should be locked up before the lever reaches vertical.

CWPASADENA · 07-25-2010, 08:00 PM

Assuming you have the shoes properly arced, centered and adjusted and the other hardware is in good condition, It sounds like I would be looking at the horzontal lever and shaft assembly and the pins. As long as the shafts and bushings are not worn too bad and the lever is tight on the shaft, you should have some brakes. I would check this and then look at the operating pin. There are shims available to shim the pins to get everything back in the proper relationship.

When correct, brake engagement should start before the lever gets all the way to the top of its arc and the brakes should be full on when the lever is apx at the top of it's arc.

Both levers should be close to the same angle when brake engagement starts. It is VERY important to have both front brakes operate together. If not, the car will pull to one side when you apply the brakes. The rears should also operate together but they are not as critical as far as the car wanting to pull to one side is concerned.

There are some very good instructions on this in Les Andrews Repair Manuals.

Just my opinion,

Chris

CWPASADENA · 07-25-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAG

When all parts are as new. and shoes adjusted properly, the brake lever will point forward about 15 deg. from vertical. This can usually be accomplished by adding brake "pellets" in the operating wedge under the vertical operating pin. The shoes should be locked up before the lever reaches vertical.

I did not mean to "step on" your post. I was writing mine out while you were posting yours.

I just type slow

Chris

Purdy Swoft · 07-25-2010, 10:00 PM

palmaceae, is the brake adjustment turned all the way in ? If not I would try adjusting. The more the adjustment wedge is tightened, the more the brake lever should lean foward. The books say 15 degrees but I usually try to have the left lever leaning foward at the 1 oclock position. If this adjustment is not possible with brake drag, you could have a bent or worn brake pin. The pins are advertised to be 7 1/4 inch length If they are not bent they can be built up with weld or brass. If they are bent I would replace rather than try to straighten. Brake shims, sometimes called brake pills are good but it is best not use over 2 in the brake wedge for fear of too high a stack of shims falling out and getting between the lining and the drum. There could be other problems. I need to know more.

palmaceae · 07-26-2010, 01:07 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

palmaceae, is the brake adjustment turned all the way in ? If not I would try adjusting. The more the adjustment wedge is tightened, the more the brake lever should lean foward. The books say 15 degrees but I usually try to have the left lever leaning foward at the 1 oclock position. If this adjustment is not possible with brake drag, you could have a bent or worn brake pin. The pins are advertised to be 7 1/4 inch length If they are not bent they can be built up with weld or brass. If they are bent I would replace rather than try to straighten. Brake shims, sometimes called brake pills are good but it is best not use over 2 in the brake wedge for fear of too high a stack of shims falling out and getting between the lining and the drum. There could be other problems. I need to know more.

Yes it is adjusted as far as it goes, both the brake rod and the wedge. I will take out the pin to see what shape it is in, I had it out before but that was a couple months ago.

Purdy Swoft · 07-26-2010, 01:41 PM

I am guessing that the drums are in place. The head of the brake pins need to ride on the tracks or it will allow the rollers to drop to the point that the wedge can't spread the shoes. The brake pins could be backwards and this would cause a similar problem, the cotter pins should face the outside. With either of these problems I doubt that you would be able to get the drums on. With all that I have to go on, I can only guess. Good luck and keep us posted.

07-25-2010, 07:39 PM	#1
palmaceae Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 44	Front brake question If I pull the brake lever all the way back on the left front brake assembly, the shoes do not grab. Should I be looking at the horizontal shaft or the operating pin? The shoes are new, the hardware is new with the exception of the above mentioned shafts. I realize there is a lot of unknowns here but just want to see what to check first. Thanks __________________ 1929 Ford Model A Tudor Sedan <><

07-25-2010, 07:55 PM	#2
MAG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 925	Re: Front brake question When all parts are as new. and shoes adjusted properly, the brake lever will point forward about 15 deg. from vertical. This can usually be accomplished by adding brake "pellets" in the operating wedge under the vertical operating pin. The shoes should be locked up before the lever reaches vertical. __________________ I noticed the harder I work the luckier I get!

07-25-2010, 08:00 PM	#3
CWPASADENA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: PASADENA, CA Posts: 1,885	Re: Front brake question Assuming you have the shoes properly arced, centered and adjusted and the other hardware is in good condition, It sounds like I would be looking at the horzontal lever and shaft assembly and the pins. As long as the shafts and bushings are not worn too bad and the lever is tight on the shaft, you should have some brakes. I would check this and then look at the operating pin. There are shims available to shim the pins to get everything back in the proper relationship. When correct, brake engagement should start before the lever gets all the way to the top of its arc and the brakes should be full on when the lever is apx at the top of it's arc. Both levers should be close to the same angle when brake engagement starts. It is VERY important to have both front brakes operate together. If not, the car will pull to one side when you apply the brakes. The rears should also operate together but they are not as critical as far as the car wanting to pull to one side is concerned. There are some very good instructions on this in Les Andrews Repair Manuals. Just my opinion, Chris

07-25-2010, 10:00 PM	#5
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Front brake question palmaceae, is the brake adjustment turned all the way in ? If not I would try adjusting. The more the adjustment wedge is tightened, the more the brake lever should lean foward. The books say 15 degrees but I usually try to have the left lever leaning foward at the 1 oclock position. If this adjustment is not possible with brake drag, you could have a bent or worn brake pin. The pins are advertised to be 7 1/4 inch length If they are not bent they can be built up with weld or brass. If they are bent I would replace rather than try to straighten. Brake shims, sometimes called brake pills are good but it is best not use over 2 in the brake wedge for fear of too high a stack of shims falling out and getting between the lining and the drum. There could be other problems. I need to know more.

07-26-2010, 01:41 PM	#7
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Front brake question I am guessing that the drums are in place. The head of the brake pins need to ride on the tracks or it will allow the rollers to drop to the point that the wedge can't spread the shoes. The brake pins could be backwards and this would cause a similar problem, the cotter pins should face the outside. With either of these problems I doubt that you would be able to get the drums on. With all that I have to go on, I can only guess. Good luck and keep us posted.