Got scammed!

[Shoebox]

I'm 60 years old, been messing with cars since I could hold a trouble light for my Dad. I've bought and sold a lot of car parts, pretty good at spotting the occasional dishonest guy.......... not this time though!

I put a WTB ad here and on the Early Ford V8 classifieds, looking for a pr of fender skirts for my 39 Merc. A guy named David "Gills" Hardy 1219 N. 76th St. Kansas City, KS. sends me pic of some skirts and a fair price. He requests payment via Moneygram, says he'll ship UPS and send me a tracking number.

Well, the money was picked up by his wife Karen Hardy 10 days ago, no tracking number, no skirts, no communication. Any suggestions what I should have done differently?? Thanks...

Shoebox

[Bob C]

Moneygram and Western Union = red flag

Bob

[Thaplumbr]

Moneygram would be the give away,also google the guys name,looks like your not the first time this has ever happened with this guy!!!
Sorry for your luck!

[Mark Slight]

Shoebox,

My first thought would be to see if the address exists by looking it up on a site like Map Quest.
Next contact the Kansas City, KS police department. fraud section for help.

Anyone have other thoughts?

Mark

[Karl Wolf]

If you use a postal money order you may have more recourse. I like the auction sites protection... It's shame that dishonest people hide among those of us that like to be able to trust people...

Karl

[Lanny]

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Originally Posted by Karl Wolf

If you use a postal money order you may have more recourse. I like the auction sites protection... It's shame that dishonest people hide among those of us that like to be able to trust people...

Karl

================================================== =======





I have called the post office a couple times to ask about them helpng
incase someone don't send parts when using a Postal Money Order, they
said I would be SOL.
They said they only help incase Postal M/O was Lost.



Also, I always get a phone number before sending money to anyone.
If I can't talk to them on the phone, then NO money will be sent.
That don't guarantee they are not a scammer, but a number will
help track them down if they are.












.

[37 Coupe]

US postal money order is not a guarantee,mayby if it gets lost in the mail but that is about all,it is more a guarantee for the seller that money is good. I lost one time to a scammer and post office would only say" but this is who you addressed money to" ."So it is on you" PayPal is the best nowadays for buyer and seller.

[Shoebox]

Yep, you guys are right.

I had no experience with Moneygram, lots of Paypal, BIG difference though. And yes, I googled this guy (just now) I am not his first sucker.

Just got off the phone with Kansas City Fraud unit, although a misdemeanor, they were interested, said it was a good address. Oh well, live and learn.

By the way,........... still looking for a pair of 39 Merc skirts

Shoebox

[TJ]

Western Union and MoneyGram is in fact a red flag. The photos they sent you were most likely stolen from another ad (probably from e-Bay) and the address is nothing more than a mail forwarding service. I suspect the seller lives in another country.

I advertised awhile back for some original 40 bumper irons on the V-8 club site. Got an e-mail from a guy who said he had the irons and he sent me obvious photos of the stainless irons from Drake's catalog. He said I could pay by Western Union. I never responded back. These crooks are out there so be on your toes.

[19Fordy]

I would think that using the US Mail to defraud is unlawful. Am I wrong?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

I would think that using the US Mail to defraud is unlawful. Am I wrong?

You ain't wrong, Jim. Lots of unlawful going-on now-a-days that's merely being "neglected". Probably one of those "incorrect" issues not to be discussed here. DD

[Sal]

I hate those SOB's. I got taken by a guy on the HAMB last year. I advertised for a pulley I gave the description on the computer, talked to him over the phone. He sent me what I didn't ask for. Then he returns my money minus $10.00 a month later. I will never deal with that rip off POS again. He is still on these sites.

[Lawson Cox]

Originally Posted by Shoebox

I'm 60 years old, been messing with cars since I could hold a trouble light for my Dad. I've bought and sold a lot of car parts, pretty good at spotting the occasional dishonest guy.......... not this time though!

I put a WTB ad here and on the Early Ford V8 classifieds, looking for a pr of fender skirts for my 39 Merc. A guy named David "Gills" Hardy 1219 N. 76th St. Kansas City, KS. sends me pic of some skirts and a fair price. He requests payment via Moneygram, says he'll ship UPS and send me a tracking number.

Well, the money was picked up by his wife Karen Hardy 10 days ago, no tracking number, no skirts, no communication. Any suggestions what I should have done differently?? Thanks...

Shoebox

Why would you want skirts for a 39 Merc? Fender darned near covers wheel anyhow. To each his own I guess. Sorry to hear you got scammed.
Using or causing to be used the mails or long distance telephone to defraud is a federal crime. Call the FBI.

[mfagan]

I had a similar situation, contacted the FBI and was told
they didn't investigate anything less than $25,000.00.

[Kube]

Okay, I have to wonder why we can't as a hobby based "community" post just who it is that does the scamming? Of course there would have to be some rules applied. But still, isn't a good thing to bring these low-life's to the forefront for all to note?
I had started a thread a short time ago in regard to Robert Azario. It appeared rather quickly that many were ripped off by this guy. I thought it was good that folks would (hopefully) steer clear of this guy in the future and hold on to their hard earned money.
Yet, the thread was closed after about a week. I did send Ryan a PM but never got a response. I heard he no longer runs this site. Anyone know if that's true?

Anyway, as I know many of you followed that "Azario" thread, below is his latest email to me. If anyone is so interested, they can find the old thread with ALL of the communication between Azario and myself.
Just to note: I have yet to see any money returned or parts.
By the way, I have "blocked" out some of the most offensive language ol' Robert used in the response below. Also note, it's been over four months. LOTS of excuses...
Here it is and by the way, his website is still very much in operation:
Dearest Douche: I will send your refund when I get back to Florida late next week. Right now I’m not far from that sh--hole you call home. As I mentioned before, I don’t give a f--k about what you think of me. You’re just a bitter old man. That notwithstanding, it’s pretty comical for you to believe that I’ve purchased my wife a single pair of shoes or “fancy” purse with the pittance that I owe you.
By the way, I don’t have a website and I don’t sell parts anymore. You and those other old f--ks who have nothing to do can kiss my a-s.
I guess it is quite obvious what Azario really thinks of us in general. Also, just for the record, I'm 57 - not really "old" in my book. Also, I am far from bitter, in fact, I'm quite happy. The "pittance"... well Robert, if it's such a pittance, why have you not refunded it as yet?

[3340]

Sad! These Type Of People Find These Sights.

[ford3]

its amazing how many times people on here have posted, NEVER SEND MONEY BY MONEY GRAM OR WESTERN UNION and they still do, do they forget the warning or what, they should have read ay least one of the posts about that, send money by either one of those methods and your money is gone, lost forever

[JM 35 Sedan]

Shoebox, by what method did this guy respond to your ad? If he sent you a PM via Fordbarn he would have to be a member here. If so, what is his handle/avatar name?

[denverslim]

So, I've got an old broken axel that I would be glad to donate to the cause. It'd look good going through his front window...slim

[tubman]

Originally Posted by ford3

its amazing how many times people on here have posted, never send money by money gram or western union and they still do, do they forget the warning or what, they should have read ay least one of the posts about that, send money by either one of those methods and your money is gone, lost forever

This is the truth! Please read it twice!

[Shadetree]

The majority of people are honest and make a great effort to be that way. It is that few that hurt when you get stung.

Just a few months ago I walked into a K-Mart and there was a guard at the door. I never thought much about it. I was getting a sore throat and needed some Listerine Tabs. I didn't need a cart so I found my tabs and hand carried them to check out, paid for them and as I approached the same guard on the way out he said I see you have your Listerine Tabs. At first I was perturbed knowing someone was watching me via cameras and had relayed to the guard to be ready to apprehend me if necessary, but then I thought, it was just a sign of the times....

[done4]

Guess I've been lucky, so far I have not been scammed but that is not to say I've not been cheated. I think this problem has been out there from day one, but with our ever evolving communication networks we now have a venue to alert others of this kind of situation. I only hope people like the one that has cheated you someday gets what is coming to them. Sorry to hear that a honest person going on good faith was wronged.

Hopefully what goes around comes around.

[Ronnie]

BEWARE not his first day at the beach!!!! Looks like the same dude.

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/1528...g-scam-update/

R

[36tbird]

Let him know that you've contacted the local court house and have the dates and times for small claims court so that you can stop in next time you are on the road for business. Tell him that you hope it does not inconvenience him and his wife to show up for court or receive a default judgment.

[ford3]

i advertised for a 49 ford coupe steering box, was contacted and the guy said he had one in perfect condition $350 plus shipping, he wanted western union, he sent me a pic of the box, i told him it looked good, but could you send me a pic of you holding the steering box, his reply was his camera wasnt working, funny it was working when you took the pick of the box, after looking on ebay i seen the pic of the same box, i never heard from him again

[wga]

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Where's the Godfather when you need him? Let Clemenza handle this...

[hardtimes]

Hey Shoebox,
Sorry you got slimed ! These days it is fairly useless to 'report' squat to anyone over this type thing. Seems lately..more/more becoming lawless society.
So, self protection includes buying/selling,eh ! I, like many others , have had my unfair share of dealings in the buying / selling life. My advice is to have the seller send you different view pictures of item(s). Even ask the seller to show a picture of him/her holding item. Ask for MORE pictures if not satisfied and / or suspicious of 'deal'. Also get phone numbers...home/cell. Get sellers address and if you have computer and/or computer friend...'mapquest' the seller property. There are lots of little things to employ to protect yourself..as a buyer. Not using moneygram is first little thing. BTW..as a seller, I expect a buyer to be cautious and ask for the same things that I ask for when buying...so I'm ready to produce whatever it takes to do the right thing. Maybe that POS that took you will make a mistake that he will have to pay for , in person.

[B-O-B]

KARMA FOLKS KARMA;
I've been had numerous times also & rely on KARMA. One of the days they will get what is coming to them.
This is what a body shop guy in IOWA calls restored 90 o/o. & yep I had two different guys look @ it. Just paint it up & call it restored.
I have a whole file of pictures he sent & numerous phone calls.
Unless you disassemble it on the spot a lot can be covered up.
I guess it comes with the territory when playing with these old cars.
Just cuss em out,call their mother names & move on. Eventually they will get what they deserve.

[Shoebox]

Ronnie,
That is indeed the scum bag!

Shoebox

Originally Posted by Ronnie

BEWARE not his first day at the beach!!!! Looks like the same dude.

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/1528...g-scam-update/

R

[green50]

Found this http://www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Internet-Fraud.shtml don't know if it would help.

[waynerod]

I always try and research the person or company before any transaction is rendered and get a telephone number. I have had many car part transactions but 99% have been with paypal protection also. That really sucks, karma comes to those ppl.

[HCO41]

I've experienced several attempts when looking for parts. (Remember the $200 dip stick)? I was also approached when looking for a special Ford tool and when looking for a Mercury oil pan. At least one of these attempts came from off-shore.
What all had in common was that I had posted the wanted ads on the V8 Ford forum, (along with the swap meet here). The only difference is that I posted my phone number and email address on the V8 forum, while I depended on PMs from members of the Barn.
In two cases, there was no follow up from the seller when I asked for a picture and phone number. Might be worth considering.

Howard

[91A-77B]

My worst scammer experience was, unfortunately, the Early Ford V8 Club website. If you want some fun, run a parts wanted ad - some jackass from England will be on you like a bee to honey. I ran 2 ads for different parts simultaneously, and got the exact same copy in the reply - but from different addresses in England. Scamming is an international sport. By the way, I bought a lot of stuff on Ebay from Azario a year or so back, and had nothing but good experience with him. Over 10 different purchases. Crazy world we live in.

[rockfla]

Shoebox, I got scammed many years ago here on Fordbarn on a winter front grill from a guy in No. Cal.. He also stole money from about 4 others for the same grill. I made contact with two of the 5 of us and we all called the Calaveras County Sheriffs Department and the detective started to work our case. It took several months but we did end up getting our money back. The detective told me at the start, because of the amount of money involved, he really had no legal grounds "per-sea" to arrest him but held hope that his position as a detective and intimidating conversations/investigations would be enough to make him do the "right thing", and it did (minus some shipping cost/but got 90% back). My advice would be is to contact with as many people as you can that have been scammed by this guy, get all your info/evidence together and call the local police department and get a detective on the phone with all of the info and cross your fingers. I tend to think my result was the exception, not the "rule". Good Luck.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 91A-77B

By the way, I bought a lot of stuff on Ebay from Azario a year or so back, and had nothing but good experience with him. Over 10 different purchases.

Just an "update" on my experience with ol' Robert Azario... below is his latest response to me. To reiterate, I have blocked out the most offensive language. Note this is about two weeks old. Guess what? STILL no refund.
from Azario:
Dearest Douche: I will send your refund when I get back to Florida late next week. Right now I’m not far from that sh--hole you call home. As I mentioned before, I don’t give a f--k about what you think of me. You’re just a bitter old man. That notwithstanding, it’s pretty comical for you to believe that I’ve purchased my wife a single pair of shoes or “fancy” purse with the pittance that I owe you.
By the way, I don’t have a website and I don’t sell parts anymore. You and those other old f--ks who have nothing to do can kiss my a-s.

[Milner]

Hi

Had an ad in FordBarn for a 1935 ford grille

Bryant Hardy contacted via normal e:mail....

Moneygram 350$ to
Karren Hardy
8045 Olive st.
Kansas City KS 66102

E:mail [email protected]

Soo 350 gone.

Peter

[TJ]

Peter, the first red flag was a '35 grille for $350. The second red flag was the moneygram and the third red flag was the last name of "Hardy". Sorry you lost your money.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Milner

Hi

Had an ad in FordBarn for a 1935 ford grille

Bryant Hardy contacted via normal e:mail....

Moneygram 350$ to
Karren Hardy
8045 Olive st.
Kansas City KS 66102

E:mail [email protected]

Soo 350 gone.

Peter

Moneygrams are a No - No! Sorry for your loss.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by 91A-77B

My worst scammer experience was, unfortunately, the Early Ford V8 Club website. If you want some fun, run a parts wanted ad - some jackass from England will be on you like a bee to honey. I ran 2 ads for different parts simultaneously, and got the exact same copy in the reply - but from different addresses in England. Scamming is an international sport. By the way, I bought a lot of stuff on Ebay from Azario a year or so back, and had nothing but good experience with him. Over 10 different purchases. Crazy world we live in.

Ha, I did this on the old fordbarn when the want ads were getting hit a lot. I posted a want ad for "Vintage ford exhaust AIR"... must be mint!

Only took about 6hrs to get a response from someone in UK (not really in the UK, just a hub for other areas). "I have your Vintage ford exhaust air, in perfect condition". "I asked if it was fresh?" Response was "Yes very fresh". No way air that old could be fresh... scammer

Everyday for a week or so I'd send a few new emails asking about the air, wasting their time.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Originally Posted by Shadetree

The majority of people are honest and make a great effort to be that way. It is that few that hurt when you get stung.

Just a few months ago I walked into a K-Mart and there was a guard at the door. I never thought much about it. I was getting a sore throat and needed some Listerine Tabs. I didn't need a cart so I found my tabs and hand carried them to check out, paid for them and as I approached the same guard on the way out he said I see you have your Listerine Tabs. At first I was perturbed knowing someone was watching me via cameras and had relayed to the guard to be ready to apprehend me if necessary, but then I thought, it was just a sign of the times....

SHADETREE ....................
It might be your "supicious" looks, that made that guard check you out.
You are kind of scary looking ! LOL
MIKE (mikeburch)

[supereal]

The safest way, if there is one, is to use PayPal as a third party transfer method. If the seller declines, the odds of a successful transaction are slim and none. We seldom buy from non pro sellers, but PayPal has prevented scamming when we do.

[CC33]

Here's the Google Maps photo of the residence. Doesn't look like any car parts are stored in this townhouse condo. Maybe the local PD could make a visit for you.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1184...mg!2e0!6m1!1e1

[JSeery]

Most likely these people don't even live anywhere near that address. Would not be to bright to run a con operation for years under different names and use an address that can be easily traced. And they seem to be successful long term at this.

[rheltzel]

So, the bottom line is we shouldn't buy anything from David "Gills" Hardy, who shows his address as 1219 N. 76th St. Kansas City, KS, because he's a no-good crook.

Right. Got it.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by rheltzel

So, the bottom line is we shouldn't buy anything from David "Gills" Hardy, who shows his address as 1219 N. 76th St. Kansas City, KS, because he's a no-good crook.

Right. Got it.

A man who can sum things up and get to the point!

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by Lanny

================================================== =======





I have called the post office a couple times to ask about them helpng
incase someone don't send parts when using a Postal Money Order, they
said I would be SOL.
They said they only help incase Postal M/O was Lost.



Also, I always get a phone number before sending money to anyone.
If I can't talk to them on the phone, then NO money will be sent.
That don't guarantee they are not a scammer, but a number will
help track them down if they are.


This. At least in NJ, it's an urban legend that the PO will help you if you get scammed.









.

This. At least in NJ, it's an urban legend that the PO will help you if you get scammed.

[CC33]

I thought that any deceptive act through the mail, especially involving U.S. Postal Money Orders, was considered to be Mail Fraud, punishable through a Court of Law. I guess cut-backs and layoffs dissolved the Security Department of the U.S. Postal Service.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by CC33

I thought that any deceptive act through the mail, especially involving U.S. Postal Money Orders, was considered to be Mail Fraud, punishable through a Court of Law. I guess cut-backs and layoffs dissolved the Security Department of the U.S. Postal Service.

It is, there are lots of things that are illegal, the issue is what are you going to do about it? If you had a real name and a real address you could press charges. But the post office is not going to investigate it for you, not now and not in the past. Where would they start? Someone on here said the low mark for the FBI is $25,000. I'm sure the post office has a number also, but no idea what it is. Look at it this way, think the post office lost over 2 Billion dollars just last quarter, so how much does that leave to investigate something that has $0 return for them?